# Great job on the blackout CCP - now lets talk about skill extracting **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [July 19, 2019, 7:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515 "2019-07-19T07:03:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![safira\_jomita](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/safira_jomita/32/405219_2.png) [@safira\_jomita](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/safira_jomita)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/81 "2019-07-20T19:58:40Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > VPN’s > > Checkmate 😛 One instance per machine would make it harder ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/82 "2019-07-20T20:43:45Z")
> [@safira\_jomita](#): > > > [@Cypherous](#): > > > > VPN’s > > > > Checkmate 😛 > > One instance per machine would make it harder. Sandboxing clients is a thing and has been for a very long time, and with VM’s its even easier 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Dravick\_Afterthought](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dravick_afterthought/32/282017_2.png) [@Dravick\_Afterthought](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dravick_Afterthought)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 8:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/83 "2019-07-21T08:54:51Z")
> [@Syeed\_Ameer\_Ali](#): > > > [@Dravick\_Afterthought](#): > > > > Not if the 2005 player had, over time, accumulated the skills for a ship which would (almost inevitably) beat the best ship the 2019 player’s skill allows him to fly > > This is the same fallacy we’ve been debunking for years now though. Venerable corporations like EVE University were even founded to debunk this myth. It doesn’t matter what ship you’re flying if you don’t have a frickin clue how to fly it, or if you’re afk, or have no friends to help you out in a pinch, or if you brought scissors and the noob you’re fighting brought rock. I agree, to a certain extent - but a really talented new player who may have a small-but-finite chance of beating a less adroit ‘old-hand’ if they’re in equal ships, will have no chance at all if said ‘old-hand’ is in a (e.g.) a T3 destroyer while the ‘newbie’ is skill-restricted to a T1 version. > [@](#): > > You didn’t address my other question though - by what metric do we judge “catching up”. If it’s by asking who would win in a 1v1, that’s not even relevant to most players, who don’t even do 1v1 fights. There must be some more pertinent metric which we can frame this discussion around, but I just can’t think of it. A knotty problem - I think the 1v1 will have to do for now, or we’re going to get dragged int a thicket of ‘what-ifs’. > [@](#): > > I’ve never played any other MMO, so I’m also kind of curious whether they have the same controversy - do level 1 players feel that they should have equal stats as level 100 or whatever players in WoW or whatever other MMOs the kids are playing these days? If so, do the developers cater to that impulse? Having never played other MMO’s either, I wouldn’t have a clue. > [@](#): > > As for your final point, the argument why players should not be able to start the game and skill right up to endgame content on day 1 is that they don’t get the same feeling of progression and character development that they would if they naturally progressed through entry level and intermediate content first. These are great experiences that they miss out on. I can see devs concentrating less attention on these aspects of the game as well, if fewer players are choosing to participate in them. So it’s “for their own good” ? Sorry, i just don’t buy that one, it smacks of desperation… ---
**Author:** ![Punctator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/punctator/32/357072_2.png) [@Punctator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Punctator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 8:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/84 "2019-07-21T08:56:09Z")
and you can not do that supers should be maintained - keeping them in efficiency and flying them should cost. 1b per month paid to npc or super begins to corrode and fall apart. Eve repaired. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 8:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/85 "2019-07-21T08:57:15Z")
This would have no direct affect on the numbers. I dont think you know exactly how rich some people are. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Ambulance](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_ambulance/32/48290_2.png) [@Black\_Ambulance](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Ambulance)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 9:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/86 "2019-07-21T09:16:21Z")
> [@Punctator](#): > > and you can not do that supers should be maintained - keeping them in efficiency and flying them should cost. 1b per month paid to npc or super begins to corrode and fall apart. Eve repaired. best retarded post I have read , gratz ---
**Author:** ![Wednesday\_Antoinette](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wednesday_antoinette/32/481891_2.png) [@Wednesday\_Antoinette](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wednesday_Antoinette)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 4:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/87 "2019-07-22T04:12:01Z")
> [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > How do you figure that? As of _right now_ , PCU numbers are 2K higher for the same time last week, and are dead even with the week before. > > Additionally, kills are up about 12% relative to the week before the blackout. Similarly, the total kills the first weekend of the blackout were up a similar amount relative to the average of the weekend kill totals for the previous two months. That’s not how you use that data, you compare it to the years before, not weeks or months. You don’t even know how to use that data and you try to use it to win your argument. ---
**Author:** ![Commander\_Kane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/commander_kane/32/199755_2.png) [@Commander\_Kane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Commander_Kane)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 7:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/88 "2019-07-22T07:47:39Z")
If it was not for the ability to inject I would have not returned to EVE. So its a win from my side. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 7:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/89 "2019-07-22T07:53:18Z")
_Finishes taking down my Omir Kurisara posters and chucking them in the bin_ _Replaces with Kane & Falcon posters_ Hawt Wanna make a sandwich, boys? ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/90 "2019-07-22T11:23:24Z")
> [@Wednesday\_Antoinette](#): > > That’s not how you use that data, you compare it to the years before, not weeks or months. You don’t even know how to use that data and you try to use it to win your argument. The person I was responding to claimed that a bunch of people had unsubbed and are not logging in over a change that is a week old. Do try to keep up. ---
**Author:** ![Wednesday\_Antoinette](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wednesday_antoinette/32/481891_2.png) [@Wednesday\_Antoinette](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wednesday_Antoinette)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/91 "2019-07-22T13:48:09Z")
> [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > The person I was responding to claimed that a bunch of people had unsubbed and are not logging in over a change that is a week old. And he is correct, you’re the one that’s not keeping up. ---
**Author:** ![Azalais\_Selenica](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/azalais_selenica/32/354085_2.png) [@Azalais\_Selenica](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Azalais_Selenica)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/92 "2019-07-22T14:02:57Z")
Personally i like skill injectors. Ships are being blown all the time, SP are not. Therefore spending isk on SP is more productive and can actually make some meaningful character progress. As for everything else, couldn’t care less. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 7:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/93 "2019-07-22T19:10:51Z")
> [@Wednesday\_Antoinette](#): > > And he is making things up because he couldn’t possibly know that based on what little data we have. Fixed your bull ■■■■, yw. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Cardinal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_cardinal/32/465862_2.png) [@The\_Cardinal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/94 "2019-07-22T19:44:45Z")
Charge per month a for a separate tier to use capital ships. Or have a capital ship “maintenance tax”. ---
**Author:** ![Destriouth\_Hollow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destriouth_hollow/32/211314_2.png) [@Destriouth\_Hollow](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destriouth_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 6:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/95 "2019-07-24T06:57:24Z")
A capital maintenance tax might have been good in the past. But these days? Titans only have half damage left against subcaps. Supers and carriers now have horrible tracking and the damage was nerfed too. Dreads are stationary, cannot be repped and therefore easily be “kited” and shot by munnins etc. Not to mention the insurance payout is rather bad now. If you still think caps are great against subcaps you are stuck in the past. I used to fly caps all the time but they are just not worth it anymore. CCP has kept nerfing until your arguments don’t fit the actual game anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Steak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ms_steak/32/168834_2.png) [@Ms\_Steak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ms_Steak)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 7:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/96 "2019-07-24T07:41:20Z")
> [@Destriouth\_Hollow](#): > > Titans only have half damage left against subcaps. In a PvP scenario 2 bosons would be enough to wipe any subcap fleet cheeky enough to get in range. ---
**Author:** ![Ioannis\_Sepphiros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ioannis_sepphiros/32/380131_2.png) [@Ioannis\_Sepphiros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ioannis_Sepphiros)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 8:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/97 "2019-07-24T08:39:57Z")
You must not be familiar with pay to win mechanics. Because thats what alting in this game is. And it is one of the prime reasons why I believe EvE is limited population and fun wise. > [@CCP\_Falcon](#): > > I have no issue with extraction/injection now, but I would certainly restrict it a bit more. If it was down to me, I’d prevent the ability to inject any capital/supercapital skills - caps and supers have always been an “endgame” or “veteran” goal in my eyes, and if you want to fly them you should have to commit the time to actually train into them. More limitations like this should be implemented. But I believe that we all know alting is too lucrative for CCP to give away. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 9:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/98 "2019-07-24T09:46:08Z")
I was alting as much before injectors as after. There’s no real difference unless you have some kind of artificial time limit you want to deadline for. ---
**Author:** ![Ioannis\_Sepphiros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ioannis_sepphiros/32/380131_2.png) [@Ioannis\_Sepphiros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ioannis_Sepphiros)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 10:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/99 "2019-07-24T10:24:56Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > There’s no real difference unless you have some kind of artificial time limit you want to deadline for. Problem isnt the injectors(which do have a limiting factor to them). Problem is the P2W aspect alts represent in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 10:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/100 "2019-07-24T10:34:25Z")
Thats the way its pretty much always been then. But it really depends on your definition of winning. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515.md?page=6)