# Great job on the blackout CCP - now lets talk about skill extracting **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [July 19, 2019, 7:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515 "2019-07-19T07:03:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/141 "2019-07-27T19:02:35Z")
I understand why you have taken this position, and Im glad we were able to discuss it without the need for pointless bloodshed 🙂 And no, I dont think youd say that if you knew my family. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/142 "2019-07-27T19:03:58Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > And no, I dont think youd say that if you knew my family. sounds like we are two fried wings at kfc in the same bucket, my friend. only question is Original or extra crispy? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/143 "2019-07-27T19:04:37Z")
Im probably the half-mouse head in the gravy, tbh. Its how I would like to go, with a smile on my face, and needing to be Heimliched to Heaven ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 8:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/144 "2019-07-31T08:37:51Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Now they just need to remove regular cynos from lowsec What happened to adapt or die? > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Null should not be safer than high-sec. It wouldn’t be if the high security police force were better at their jobs. > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Just because momma’s tit dried up and you can’t suckle anymore doesn’t mean you have to be a crybaby about it. And yes, I live in nullsov. Right, so why does everyone else have to htfu and you want special anti-cyno snowflake treatment? ---
**Author:** ![Sordina](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sordina/32/148069_2.png) [@Sordina](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sordina)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 8:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/145 "2019-07-31T08:49:44Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > It wouldn’t be if the high security police force were better at their jobs. How they can be better at punishing criminals? ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 11:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/146 "2019-08-01T23:53:08Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > What happened to adapt or die? One may always suggest improvements to the game - the difference here is I’m not crying about it. I’m in one of the large blocs, I’ve got zero concern with cynos in any space personally. That said, lowsec would be a far better place without capital blobs. Leave that to null, where it’s supposed to be lawless. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > It wouldn’t be if the high security police force were better at their jobs. CONCORD does their jobs perfectly. You mistakenly assume they’re there to protect you, but they aren’t. True to intent, they give exactly zero fucks what happens to a victim. The person who attacked them, otoh, is about to have an explodey day. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Right, so why does everyone else have to htfu and you want special anti-cyno snowflake treatment? HTFU would absolutely be a valid response, were I complaining and saying it wasn’t fair. But I’m not, I generally only go into LS traveling from one part of null to another. I personally give zero fucks. That said, LS should be a transition to PVP for players, where you aren’t going to see null blocs cap blobbing the ■■■■ out of things. That belongs in nullsov. A more meaningful transition than “you can’t bubble” would be healthy for LS. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/147 "2019-08-02T23:45:32Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > One may always suggest improvements to the game - the difference here is I’m not crying about it. I’m in one of the large blocs, I’ve got zero concern with cynos in any space personally. Yeah, it must be nice to have such a large umbrella that you almost wish someone is dumb enough to light a cyno where the capital blob can reach. > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > That said, lowsec would be a far better place without capital blobs. Leave that to null, where it’s supposed to be lawless. Not lawless, its where player law is a possibility. Ie, cyno jammer
no more cyno’s just like you want right? > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > CONCORD does their jobs perfectly. You mistakenly assume they’re there to protect you, but they aren’t. True to intent, they give exactly zero fucks what happens to a victim. The person who attacked them, otoh, is about to have an explodey day. Woosh? Concord are useless, what kind of police force drags a suspect out of their Datsun 120y after a murder and then lets them go after 15 minutes? Make them flash red for a few hours, not just give the perpetrator time to take a dump and catch up on the news. > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > That said, LS should be a transition to PVP for players, where you aren’t going to see null blocs cap blobbing the ■■■■ out of things. What about NPC null? Getting cap blobbed isn’t much fun there either. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/148 "2019-08-07T15:22:21Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Yeah, it must be nice to have such a large umbrella that you almost wish someone is dumb enough to light a cyno where the capital blob can reach. It happens all the time? > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Not lawless, its where player law is a possibility. Ie, cyno jammer
no more cyno’s just like you want right? Lawless. A place where you can do whatever you want. Such as place a cyno jammer. Or launch bombs. Or interdict ships with bubbles. “Player law” is more like “player guidelines”. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Concord are useless, what kind of police force drags a suspect out of their Datsun 120y after a murder and then lets them go after 15 minutes? Make them flash red for a few hours, not just give the perpetrator time to take a dump and catch up on the news. Their job is to blow up bad guys. Their job is not to protect the bears. It doesn’t matter if you think it’s stupid, that is literally their design intent. If you don’t like the design intent, feel free to get laughed out of the forums for suggesting they start protecting bears instead of just punishing their attackers. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > What about NPC null? Getting cap blobbed isn’t much fun there either. The lack of player sov removes all of the benefits that sov holders would have. Getting blobbed in lawless space is kind of a shrug-worthy thing. Yea it sucks, and yea I’d like to see blobbing go away (replaced with merit, such as “we’re actually better PVPers”). But, that goes against the Eve mantra of here’s a spaceship, go ■■■■ yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/149 "2019-08-07T21:19:15Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > If you don’t like the design intent, feel free to get laughed out of the forums for suggesting they start protecting bears instead of just punishing their attackers. Why so fast to put fingers in ears and ignore a subject because its believed to be a ‘bear’ only problem? CONCORD’s mechanics were changed only recently to deal with neutral logistics. CCP’s design might have made sense when it was first rolled out, these days people have figured out the risk-reward to the point where the attacker is always going to win enough to sustain their gameplay regardless. > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > The lack of player sov removes all of the benefits that sov holders would have. Tell that to all the null groups that fled into NPC null and low security space to avoid getting demolished by aggressors. Sometimes just not getting your stuff smashed up while you’re asleep is a benefit. If anyone is curios to see what Eve would be like without asset safety, play Rust for a few days. Nobody ever thinks it will be them getting their stuff nicked, only other people. CONCORD needs to make sense, otherwise, what value does it add to the game? ---
**Author:** ![Amarisen\_Gream](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amarisen_gream/32/296747_2.png) [@Amarisen\_Gream](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amarisen_Gream)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 1:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/150 "2019-08-08T01:25:10Z")
> [@CCP\_Falcon](#): > > That said, there’s changes I’d make for sure! I find this statement ironically funny! As when skill extraction and injection was first proposed, I argued mostly against the way it was going to be implemented. Hindsight tends to be a ■■■■■, specially when it comes to a game like EVE, where a boo boo can mess up a whole lot of ■■■■. I proposed a different method back then and I still feel it holds its ground as a better option for extraction/injection than the current dead horse. Extraction: Players extract as they can now. Injection: Skill points are not lost on injection depending on the host’s sp amount. (The part the makes the change) Players can’t just ADD SP to a skill. Instead, SPs are used from the pool as the character gains skill points. E.G. A player is sub 5 million sp. They have a pool of 500k sp unallocated. They would gain 1 sp from time and say 100 from the pool. As they reach different SP levels, the amount pulled from the pool would decrease until it became a 1:1 ration. 5 million or less = 1:100 5.01 million to 10 million = 1:75 10.01 to 30 million = 1:50 30.01 to 50 million = 1:25 50 million plus = 1:1 This would still allow your wingman to skill up faster and go have fun with you. Yet, it limits characters from just jumping into something with instant gratification. People should have to put in a little time and effort to have what those that came before them have. With love and hugs TheGream ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/151 "2019-08-08T16:28:40Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Why so fast to put fingers in ears and ignore a subject because its believed to be a ‘bear’ only problem? > > CONCORD’s mechanics were changed only recently to deal with neutral logistics. CCP’s design might have made sense when it was first rolled out, these days people have figured out the risk-reward to the point where the attacker is always going to win enough to sustain their gameplay regardless. I’m perfectly happy to listen to your suggestions. But if it makes anyone safer, then it’s not going to fit with the overall intent for the game. If it reduces ■■■■■■■■ and creates more fighting (neutral logistics), it’s absolutely within the intent for the game. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Sometimes just not getting your stuff smashed up while you’re asleep is a benefit. Honestly, is it really so easy to stick your head in the sand? The only time that’s even remotely possible is in a WH, where the timers are far tighter. Reinforcement timers are a thing. They’re scheduled by the people who own the ■■■■ getting smashed up. If anyone’s “fleeing to NPC null”, they didn’t belong in nullsov anyways. Your ■■■■ doesn’t get blown up while you’re asleep, unless you choose to be asleep for it. ---
**Author:** ![Synil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/synil/32/276766_2.png) [@Synil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Synil)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/152 "2019-08-09T21:48:02Z")
You know skill injector cost just too much isk for a new player right ? i haven’t seen any new players inject but old veteran does, for Titan dread rorqual
 if you want to help new players either highly reduce the price of skill injector or just increase the SP gain the less SP you have (and make those “bonus SP” un-extractable, but i’m happy with those “free SP” CCP give, they just need some change to make them more interesting to farm like a Monthy cap with multiple weekly quest like some other MMO, but make them un-extractable soo you prevent skill-farm to get more and more money from them (and hope CCP do something for cap/super injection really) i have only 22M SP, even after 1 year i’m still considered a “noob” because i’m not competitive with other vet even if i understand how a dread/carrier work i can’t fly them, even if i want to bash some structure i can’t, can’t covercyno soo i can’t harass, just usefull for “basic” work like takle/scout (and it’s a good way to learn pvp btw) if CCP just delete SP i’m probably gonna fly some T2 talos bash some structures and farm for a nano-carrier, probably gonna put my skillfarm in hostile space with a covercyno, but that not gonna happen and i don’t think that would be a good thing for Eve (Rorqual/capital online) SP feel like a “reward” afterall, but when you lack of SP it’s more like a punishment hope you do something for “newplayers” and please a newplayers isn’t just a 1month old character don’t forget people like me, i’m probably gonna stay a “noob” for another year maybe more
■■■■ game design ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 4:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/153 "2019-08-10T04:25:08Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > But if it makes anyone safer, then it’s not going to fit with the overall intent for the game. Not all increases in safety is about decreasing the ability to damage and destroy. The point of the change, made it safer for people pursuing a war to do so without any third parties coming in at the last second and ‘saving’ the opposing fleet with neutral logistics. > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > If it reduces ■■■■■■■■ and creates more fighting (neutral logistics), it’s absolutely within the intent for the game. It might have simply made the neutral logistics less neutral ( join the war declared corporation, or become an ally, don’t try to pick and choose ) though the mechanic in isolation doesn’t create more fighting, it creates more situation where CONCORD punishes behaviour deemed detrimental. > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Honestly, is it really so easy to stick your head in the sand? The only time that’s even remotely possible is in a WH, where the timers are far tighter. Don’t be blind to where CCP is taking the age of Chaos. WH mechanics everywhere is going to mean every citadel becomes a loot piñata. > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Your ■■■■ doesn’t get blown up while you’re asleep, unless you choose to be asleep for it. Structure owners set timers, and not every structure owner has a standing fleet available 24/7. The big blocks are going to crush everyone else like piglets getting rolled on by a sow. > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > If anyone’s “fleeing to NPC null”, they didn’t belong in nullsov anyways. Its been pointed out before, in order to take Null you need supers, and the only way to get supers is to have Null. So the only people who’ll ever be allowed to ‘belong’ in Null are those who already have supers. Doesn’t seem to be a healthy state for the game to grow
 ---
**Author:** ![Destriouth\_Hollow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destriouth_hollow/32/211314_2.png) [@Destriouth\_Hollow](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destriouth_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/154 "2019-09-07T18:51:44Z")
> [Jagati Khan81](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jagati_Khan81) > [Jul 24]([Great job on the blackout CCP - now lets talk about skill extracting - #108 by Jagati\_Khan81](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/108) > @CCP_Falcon > So how would you feel about injectors being tier based on character age. I feel that sort of system would allow for new players to still inject and catch up a bit. While also helping returning players make up for lost time. A lot of people stop for real world reasons that they have no control over like going on tour in the armed forces. > I know a lot of peeps will just say no as they would like to see them gone completely. > But if they are here to stay I feel there is value in this suggestion and it may help make up the mind of someone thinking of returning. You mean like skill injectors giving much more SP to older accounts? Why does this idea sound familiar (: ---
**Author:** ![ugh\_zug](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugh_zug/32/173214_2.png) [@ugh\_zug](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ugh_zug)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 2:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/155 "2019-09-08T02:05:42Z")
As many alpha and omega accounts as I want? Hey why can’t I log them all in then? ;p ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 2:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/great-job-on-the-blackout-ccp-now-lets-talk-about-skill-extracting/176515/156 "2019-12-07T02:05:44Z")
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