# Griefing ruins the game **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [January 2, 2022, 12:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880 "2022-01-02T00:21:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Same\_Old\_Topics](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/same_old_topics/32/282720_2.png) [@Same\_Old\_Topics](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Same_Old_Topics)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/429 "2022-02-03T14:03:21Z")
How can there not be a lesson to learn? I mean that sincerely. Whatever got you killed, there had to be a way to learn from it. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/430 "2022-02-03T14:22:24Z")
Oh boy. Where to start. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Did I mention your killboard until you went off on that ill advised and incorrect tangent. What’s your point. You get called out for killboard shaming of a player and your response is to killboard shame the player that just called you out. So if I don’t want you attempting to killboard shame me i should just shut up and know my place. This is classic abuser logic. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > So I am bullying someone who called me names because I had a different view from him, and he got upset with me asking him if he hated single character players? At what point are you going to look in the mirror. At what point do you realise that you might be the problem. If everyone is arguing with you then maybe it isnt them that are in the wrong lol. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > You attached yourself to an on-going thing, got it. Ok …………so how is that an answer to the question “are you implying i am a ganker?” I don’t get it. The question has a yes or no answer. Why are you continually being cryptic. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > It is a play on words that I find rather amusing. That’s nice. But actually telling me what it means might be more helpful no. Like i said. You dangle bits of information forcing people to ask what you mean and then belittling them in response. It’s you again trying to be superior. Well great. I still confused. Congratulations. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Are you proud of that forum experience, oh my… Best doesn’t mean proud. Best means best. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Says the person who follows me around going for the 10th time, for the 11th time I asked a simple direct question. TO which i still haven’t gotten an answer. It’s not unreasonable to point out how you are being awkward, avoiding giving straight answers. It’s all about control. Actually giving me an answer would mean doing something that doesn’t allow you to feel superior to me. You’re behaviour is predictable. So come on. Lets close the issue out. Were you implying i was a ganker? (It’s a yes or no question). Come on astound us by actually answering it. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Going to “Preferences, Users, Ignored” is how I obtained instant results in this area. I find sparing, precise use works well. No doubt. But the thing is he can actually say some things that are on point and interesting when he isn’t a slave to his ego and refusing to admit he got something wrong. I don’t believe in silencing anyone. At the end of the day everyone should be heard and being part of an echo chamber is never good in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/431 "2022-02-03T14:30:25Z")
I was genuinely wondering why he had lost so many Endurances. You turned it into something it was not by suggesting I was trying to killboard shame him, the comment about your killboard was a joke on that, because your killboard is redder than his. Still a joke… Let me be clear, a red killboard is often an indication of people taking risks not a mark of competence or not. It is the type of risk and how you control it that is important, and there are situations and choices where it is difficult to avoid loss if you make certain decisions that start adding up. Especially in terms of dealing with some of those seriously good players that play this game. I am rather proud of getting 3.5bn worth of PI out of Faspara with no loss, I made certain choices, did certain things and acted in certain ways. This game is hard, but when you do something that most other people lose ships doing, then you can look at yourself and say well done. I hope that helps you understand a little more on why I asked about the Endurances. I was interested in what he was doing until I realised it was choices he made in that event that gave those losses, as far as I could read it. Not everybody argues with me, certain people make a point of arguing with me. Does your killboard indicate that you are a ganker? I told you that I think you are a ganker shrill. Some people have already worked out the joke with shrills, they actually laughed. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/432 "2022-02-03T14:31:23Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > I don’t believe in silencing anyone. At the end of the day everyone should be heard and being part of an echo chamber is never good in my opinion. Suit yourself. But if you must insist with continuing to insinuate that “sparing, precise use” results in an echo chamber – and by implication, that I am an ignoramous – then you’re only signalling your own lack of education around actual principles of free expression, the role of censorship as a tool, and nuances therein, particularly when applied to digital platforms. I’ve no problem being an “echo-chambered fool” in your mind. Good luck with the next 500 posts in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Jordan\_Kerns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jordan_kerns/32/465999_2.png) [@Jordan\_Kerns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jordan_Kerns)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/433 "2022-02-03T14:40:32Z")
> [@Arcturen\_Sanguis](#): > > The problem occurs when you lose a ship and there’s nothing to learn from it. Yes that is a problem… as in life, when you lose a set of keys, do you just camp outside your home, or do you strategize how to get inside? locksmith? open window? girlfriend/wife with the keys? how do you solve it for next time? a set of keys in a fake rock or in your car? Problems and solutions require thought. Your job isnt to become invincible in EVE, but to try and survive the next encounter, and through trial and error, become more efficient at moding and flying the ship. If the ship is a mining, ship, then selecting what best suits your environment. e.g. a production fit covetor mining in Uedama deserves to die a 1000 deaths, out of shear lack of respect for the dangers that await there. Even this simplest of games pos a challenge for you to overcome. in this game, you have a choice of ships, skilling, mods and location as well as imp;lants drugs and other modifiers to assist in helping solve the problem… In short - dont be lazy, learn to eve, or dont… > [@Arcturen\_Sanguis](#): > > ■■■■ like that shouldn’t be in the game. what is this in reference to? ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/434 "2022-02-03T14:42:37Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Suit yourself. But if you must insist with continuing to insinuate that “sparing, precise use” results in an echo chamber – and by implication, that I am an ignoramous – then you’re only signalling your own lack of education around actual principles of free expression, the role of censorship as a tool, and nuances therein, particularly when applied to digital platforms. I’ve no problem being an “echo-chambered fool” in your mind. That was definitely not what I meant. Apologies that you took it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/435 "2022-02-03T14:43:51Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > And you can’t tell anybody about it, because that will either prove that you are a weakling, or that you deserve it, or that you want it… and then you can read yet another forum thread about how YOU are the griefer. Gosh…isn’t it amazing how logic suddenly prevails when it’s _your_ issue but gets turned on its head for anyone else, eh. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 2:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/436 "2022-02-03T14:50:08Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Literally in the post right before the one you quoted YOU brought up someone else’s killboard. I simply called you out for attempting to kill board shame yet another player. It’s not fake indignation. It’s like every thread i look into you are insulted or abusing another player. Your constant bullying needs to be called out. Dracvlad is literally a garbage-tier player, and his kill board is 95% shooting at ganker ships that explode to a CONCORD Police Commander 10 seconds later. Any attempt by him to kill board shame _anyone_ should be laughed off as the intemperate Napoleon complex symptom that it is. > [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > That’s nice. But actually telling me what it means might be more helpful no. Like i said. You dangle bits of information forcing people to ask what you mean and then belittling them in response. It’s you again trying to be superior. Well great. I still confused. Congratulations. A coward in real life, a coward in the game, and a coward on the forums. Ambiguity and vagueness are a coward’s weapons. Cowards will leave things open to interpretation so that they can either weasel out of an unfavorable situation when their efforts backfire (e.g. “well that’s not what I meant and you just interpreted it that way!”), or take credit for success if things go their way (e.g. “see!? I told you!”). ---
**Author:** ![Jordan\_Kerns](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jordan_kerns/32/465999_2.png) [@Jordan\_Kerns](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jordan_Kerns)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/437 "2022-02-03T14:53:52Z")
[![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/a/5/ba5b25c83c6376211f7ac0716cb9f6bfbd78a933.jpeg "Eve Online: The Lazar Collection, Episode 4") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reEYzWhCWZ0) an example of someone who cries hes being griefed after weeks of prodding and provoking gankers directly, on and off stream. This particular player might just have the record for most isk lost in eve through ganking within a year. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/438 "2022-02-03T15:16:02Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Of course im upset with you. You have literally spent days defending players making death threats and threats of sexual assault against other players. I find that extremely upsetting, unsettling and unacceptable. Again you need to be called out for this behaviour. This is just pure nonsense. I haven’t seen anyone actually ‘defending’ anything of the sort. In not a single post has Dravclad or anyone else said such behaviour is OK. Instead I have seen people unscrupulously try to _use_ the issue for point scoring…and those such as yourself failing to call out those doing so. In fact not only failing to call out the unscrupulous and absurd witch hunting straw man but actively encouraging it. You, sir, are the one who needs to be called out. Either you are simply not intelligent enough to see what was _really_ going on…or you are condoning behaviour that would not have been out of place at Salem. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 3:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/439 "2022-02-03T15:26:22Z")
We have very different views on this issue. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > In not a single post has Dravclad or anyone else said such behaviour is OK But they sure have invested an awful lot of time posting about how it isn’t their problem and why they don’t need to address such behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/440 "2022-02-03T15:44:59Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > But they sure have invested an awful lot of time posting about how it isn’t their problem and why they don’t need to address such behaviour. Why wouldn’t people ? Sometimes the mere act of asking a question is an implication of guilt. Simply posing a question and demanding a ‘no’ response may sound rational, but it is a loaded question. If you ask someone ’ do you agree with griefing ?'…you are placing yourself in a position of judgemental authority and the other person in a position of suspected guilt. _Of course_ people are going to reject such. And _of course_ when you get others try to imply that failing to respond in itself implies guilt…it is patently obvious what the true purpose is. Personally, I have in fact several times on these forums condemned all forms of discrimination and unwarranted personal attack. I don’t even like Destiny’s disparaging of ‘boomers’…and have said so. But there is a time and a place for making such observations, and nobody should feel _forced_ to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/441 "2022-02-03T15:57:28Z")
I really don’t get it. If someone thinks something is wrong why cant they say it is wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Same\_Old\_Topics](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/same_old_topics/32/282720_2.png) [@Same\_Old\_Topics](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Same_Old_Topics)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/442 "2022-02-03T16:09:18Z")
You can. You can even insist on your POV. But to publicly state it is to allow for the concept that someone else will do the same thing. They truly think you’re wrong. Or right. Either way. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/443 "2022-02-03T16:14:50Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > I really don’t get it. If someone thinks something is wrong why cant they say it is wrong? That’s a rather naive view of the manner in which questions themselves get used as weapons. There are times in history ( McCarthy, Robespierre, etc, etc ) when merely being _asked_ a question was a sign of deep doggie doo. Ostensibly, anyone standing before McCarthy merely had to answer ‘no’…but _the damage had already been done_ by the insinuation in the first place. McCarthy asked the exact same question as you. Why can’t people just deny involvement ( with whatever ). But in many cases mere suspicion alone was enough to lose people their jobs…as occurred with Oppenheimer. _That_ is why people reject loaded questions. I can’t believe this even needs explaining ! ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 4:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/444 "2022-02-03T16:35:06Z")
They’re trying to weasel out of having to speak against an indefensible position (that threats of real-life physical/sexual violence shouldn’t be categorically condemned regardless of context) under the reasoning that they’re either not obligated to do so or because it is “off-topic.” And I honestly think that’s pretty cool. Now, whenever necessary, we can point to a person and say that “this is a person who wouldn’t unconditionally state that raping someone over their actions in a video game is wrong.” The parallels to McCarthyism and witch hunts are interesting, considering that being a Communist wasn’t an indefensible position, just an unfavorable one _at the time._ Also, witch hunts were conducted in the absence (in fact nonexistence) of evidence, while here we have plenty of evidence of certain individuals directly supporting the most toxic type of behavior possible. It’s not exactly a witch hunt if you catch someone in the act of turning a person into a toad and then flying away on their broom. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/445 "2022-02-03T16:50:15Z")
History is full of people intellectualising to justify atrocities. And I might add using those “logical” arguments to convince others to help them commit said atrocities. It’s completely possible to “logic” a position and feel fine about it. Doesn’t mean that on a moral level it is actually a good position. Put a different way…… It’s completely possible to be so far up your own ass that you lose sight of the fact you are being a c\*nt. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/446 "2022-02-03T17:05:39Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > History is full of people intellectualising to justify atrocities. And I might add using those “logical” arguments to convince others to help them commit said atrocities. But that’s precisely what occurred here…with your support. A ‘crime’ was manufactured out of thin air. Just like at Salem. ‘Are you a witch…yes or no ?’ All that’s missing here is the mill pond. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/447 "2022-02-03T17:10:38Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Now, whenever necessary, we can point to a person and say that “this is a person who wouldn’t unconditionally state… Which was the entire disgusting purpose of the witch hunt in the first place. It’s clear this needs posting yet again. HAVE YOU NO DECENCY ? [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/4/a/d4ae90fc09eea3d5e0be7f7edc15131e73820a0c.jpeg ""Have You No Decency?" | McCarthy | American Experience | PBS") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svUyYzzv6VI) ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 5:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/448 "2022-02-03T17:15:33Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > while here we have plenty of evidence of certain individuals directly supporting the most toxic type of behavior possible. It doesn’t get much more toxic than violating ‘thou shalt not bear false witness’. Seriously, its like hearing he head of The Inquisition rattle on about toxicity to the sound of flames burning. Hypocrite. Utter hypocrite. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880.md?page=21) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880.md?page=23)