# Griefing ruins the game **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [January 2, 2022, 12:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880 "2022-01-02T00:21:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Duella\_Cre\_Vil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duella_cre_vil/32/297348_2.png) [@Duella\_Cre\_Vil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duella_Cre_Vil)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/143 "2022-01-03T14:47:51Z")
Ill bet people invaded your hole so hard that it closed up and you couldn’t use it anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anthony_fattony_amico/32/391106_2.png) [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anthony_FatTony_Amico)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/144 "2022-01-03T15:13:38Z")
> [@Arcturen\_Sanguis](#): > > 15v1 isn’t fun. Doubt OP will read this but. Welcome to EVE a game where fights are never fair? Almost like real life! ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/145 "2022-01-03T16:01:50Z")
> [@Ricky\_Tock](#): > > Griefing is a fun term I learned from Minecraft. In that game, one would grief another player by destroying blocks they placed, placing blocks in another player’s territory, or generally obstructing another player’s progress. I learnt it in diablo 2. In that game, you could use a cheat and become hostile with OP items in order to kill noobs (you needed to send the hostile+TP packets at the same time, then use maphack to find your targets). Also if you died enough your body started to disappear and you lost items. That made people leave the game, enough that blizzard took actions to prevent that abuse. Also in hardcore mode, you anyhow had only one life. So people only played in closed servers, because there was enough bugs that could kill you to not have to deal with a creditcard warrior (yes there was a lot of RMT) Still there was more ways to grieve people . Making TPs right inside the range of a boss who could then stun loop you (if you had not enough recovery speed), or straight inside nihlatak crypt (where he could make all the surrounding bodies explode, killing you 1000 times), or within a souls champion that could one shot you through the chain lightning bug (basically hitting you 24 times per second by the damage of the boss per spell hit). Another way was to used skeletons and force people to be stuck against enemies. Also in another game, named Wolfenstein : Ennemy territory, friendly fire was always on. So you could mortar your friends off the map “I need a mediiiiic”. Or burn them to a chick when preparing for an assault. You would be soon kicked from the server for grieving, but people simply created new accounts. I was playing that game when I started Eve also, BTW. 15years ago IIRC. It’s grieving the moment you try to harm the player experience. Be it allowed, through bugs, or through mechanism abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Leggone\_Stracks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leggone_stracks/32/290900_2.png) [@Leggone\_Stracks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Leggone_Stracks)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/146 "2022-01-03T16:09:40Z")
The word “griefing” is like the phrase “conspiracy theory” in the real world. It is used to discount something out of hand. Killing people in Eve is why we have a market full of ships with highs and drone bays and the stuff to fill them. Otherwise it’s boring. “No real organisms were hurt in the making of this ‘griefing’.” ---
**Author:** ![Leggone\_Stracks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leggone_stracks/32/290900_2.png) [@Leggone\_Stracks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Leggone_Stracks)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/147 "2022-01-03T16:21:59Z")
So was this ship not fitted with weaponry of any kind? The my slasher, assuming I had enough ammo could have killed it. At least put on some cheap autocannons, or whatever pew toys you like. Cheap T1 drones. Something. ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/148 "2022-01-03T16:44:40Z")
I’ve been around the block in W-space for long enough to know that eventually Bob will find His will being abused and take avenge on those who run their mouths too much. Someone will come and clear the system just to prove a point. You really don’t want to make yourself a target over a lost battleship. Pride comes before a fall after all. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/149 "2022-01-03T16:50:42Z")
> [@Leggone\_Stracks](#): > > The word “griefing” is like the phrase “conspiracy theory” in the real world. It is used to discount something out of hand. Killing people in Eve is why we have a market full of ships with highs and drone bays and the stuff to fill them. Otherwise it’s boring. > > “No real organisms were hurt in the making of this ‘griefing’.” You are wrong here. Grieving exists, and existed before Eve. Also conspiracies DO exist. The main issue is that conspiracies are hidden by definition, so you can’t prove them by public information, so it’s only rumor mongering - defamation and insults - until the conspiracy has been publicly exposed. However conspiracies do exist, even sometimes at the highest level of the states [Operation Condor - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor) Claiming conspiracies dos not exist is a plain lie, and an insult to the migrants whose parents were tortured and/or murdered as a result of those. Grieving exists. The issue is different than the one of conspiracies : grieving is ACCEPTED in Eve as part of the standard gameplay. The reason is only pragmatism : when Eve was developed, video games had left the state of “children play” they had been first associated to, for like 10 years only, and people started to acquire more access to internet-based games. The first MMOs already had their share of grieving, as well as their share of multiboxing, RMT, etc. The approach chosen for Eve was a pragmatic one : accept multiboxing, accept gold farming through PLEX (though it was only later, this partially solves the RMT problem), accept grieving. Don’t fight the lost battle of making your game safer for children, make it mature where people choices would matter. As you wrote though, this incidentally solved the long-term issue of inflation by power creep in other MMO by making assets a consumable. (ships are ammos). So yes, accepting grieving in the game is what makes the economy run. They still need to handle bots though … ---
**Author:** ![Leggone\_Stracks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leggone_stracks/32/290900_2.png) [@Leggone\_Stracks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Leggone_Stracks)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/150 "2022-01-03T16:55:28Z")
Uh…you didn’t get the flavor of what I was saying. Reframe what I was saying as a bit sarcastic. The word “griefing” is used by victims to complain and discount having been killed. “Conspiracy theory” is used to discount something that may very well be true. And another favorite word with magical “these aren’t the droids your looking for” power: “debunked”. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/151 "2022-01-03T17:01:30Z")
> [@Leggone\_Stracks](#): > > The word “griefing” is used by victims to complain and discount having been killed. “Conspiracy theory” is used to discount something that may very well be true. > > And another favorite word with magical “these aren’t the droids your looking for” power: “debunked”. And I say you are wrong by comparing the two. It would be more appropriate to compare your post to that “conspiracy theory” calling IRL. Because you are discounting something that may very well be true (the grieving) ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/152 "2022-01-03T17:29:39Z")
> [@Arcturen\_Sanguis](#): > > I make the post for myself, not for any of you. This is really selfish behaviour! ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/153 "2022-01-03T17:39:32Z")
I don’t know what all the to-ing and fro-ing is about here; it’s quite straightforward. Griefing in EVE is the deliberate (intentional) goading of an opponent, undertaken to produce a public or private emotional response - usually anger or sadness. Its ultimate aim is to assert the superiority of the player doing the griefing over the opponent. It’s basically emotional PvP, so if you have your emo-DCU engaged and are not otherwise squishy, it should be like water off a duck’s back. To paraphrase James 315; PvP doesn’t ruin the game - it _is_ the game. Ta’ James. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 5:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/154 "2022-01-03T17:45:15Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > Griefing in EVE is the deliberate (intentional) goading of an opponent, undertaken to produce a public or private emotional response - usually anger or sadness. Its ultimate aim is to assert the superiority of the player doing the griefing over the opponent. No it’s not. Emotional damage may be one of the goals, but you can’t assert it is the sole one. People can do it for the lulz. Then get bored. The most important part is, emotional damage is not something you can measure through a video game. If I tell you to go ■■■■ yourself, it does not mean I have been emotionally damage - it only means you are ruining the discussion, and polluting people’s experience. It means you are the definition of a waste : a byproduct of an industry that prevents that industry from expanding. You will interpret that as emotional damage, because you need to enforce your delusion with stretches. But it’s as much an interesting interpretation as the one of people who keep claiming earth is flat. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/155 "2022-01-03T17:54:06Z")
> [@Arcturen\_Sanguis](#): > > Indeed, what grown person would reach out to the community they are a member of when they have a problem with something? > > Only children do that. LOL if by reaching out you mean throwing repeated tantrums in a public forum? You realize your behavior is there for all to be seen right? You’re worse than those dudes who blapped you, which is why they podded you ROFL. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Still there was more ways to grieve people . Making TPs right inside the range of a boss who could then stun loop you (if you had not enough recovery speed), or straight inside nihlatak crypt (where he could make all the surrounding bodies explode, killing you 1000 times), or within a souls champion that could one shot you through the chain lightning bug (basically hitting you 24 times per second by the damage of the boss per spell hit). Ahh you’ve unlocked memories I’d forgotten I had LOL. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > And I say you are wrong by comparing the two. It would be more appropriate to compare your post to that “conspiracy theory” calling IRL. > > Because you are discounting something that may very well be true (the grieving) He isn’t discounting griefing, he is saying in this instance the dude is using it wrong. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > it only means you are ruining the discussion, and polluting people’s experience. It means you are the definition of a waste : a byproduct of an industry that prevents that industry from expanding. > You will interpret that as emotional damage, because you need to enforce your delusion with stretches. But it’s as much an interesting interpretation as the one of people who keep claiming earth is flat. That’s a nice opinion you got there 😃 Weird you’re trying to present it as fact. ---
**Author:** ![LiebesPilz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/liebespilz/32/374325_2.png) [@LiebesPilz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/LiebesPilz)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/156 "2022-01-03T18:00:13Z")
that is not even close to the term “griefing”. u put your shoes into the wrong door, simple as that. when i chill in my neighbours garden after \*\*\*\*\* his wife it isnt griefing when he punch me out… and its also not griefing if you clear the sites of other ppl and get killed for this. thats the game. nott even close to griefing tbh. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/157 "2022-01-03T18:02:32Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > He isn’t discounting griefing, he is saying in this instance the dude is using it wrong. nah, he is saying that calling other people gameplay grieving is a way to discard those people. But the reality is, they **are** grieving. so he is actually discounting the opinion of people who are victim of grieving as a fallacious argument, just like people’s unorthodox opinions can be discounted as “conspiracy theory” - he is bacically calling them “grieving theories” > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > That’s a nice opinion you got there 😃 Weird you’re trying to present it as fact. Which part is an opinion exactly ? Where do I present it as a fact ? I present it on the opposite as THEIR opinion. And I say that THEIR opinion is “[as] interesting […] as the one of people who keep claiming earth is flat.” > [@LiebesPilz](#): > > when i chill in my neighbours garden after \*\*\*\*\* his wife it isnt griefing when he punch me out… Where the f is his wife in Eve ? In the pleasure hub ? ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/158 "2022-01-03T18:03:43Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > People can do it for the lulz. You are firing on just the one cylinder then, Anderson. Let me explain. You’re implying that doing something ‘for the lulz’ is a one-sided affair, which takes no account of the presence of any ‘other’ actor-as-recipient. Frankly, this is tosh. One might as well attempt to goad a Jersey potato. Without a living target, griefing is impotent. No griefer will persist for long if a response is lacking; the ‘lulz’ are generated from the _response_. It is also very common in wars and other conflicts, where it is usually called ‘attrition’. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/159 "2022-01-03T18:04:37Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > nah, he is saying that calling other people gameplay grieving is a way to discard those people. > > But the reality is, they **are** grieving. > > so he is actually discounting the opinion of people who are victim of grieving as a fallacious argument, just like people’s unorthodox opinions can be discounted as “conspiracy theory” - he is bacically calling them “grieving theories” LOL, no he isn’t. Literally. He acknowledges griefing exists, but in this instance he is saying the dude is crying wolf because he doesn’t want to own up to the loss. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Which part is an opinion exactly ? Where do I present it as a fact ? I present it on the opposite as THEIR opinion. And I say that THEIR opinion is “[as] interesting […] as the one of people who keep claiming earth is flat. Its all opinion bruv 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/160 "2022-01-03T18:04:48Z")
Griefing occurs when you engage in activity which the developers do not consider to be acceptable gameplay. Griefing is behaviour which, if reported to game developers, is likely to result in a ban because it violates the rules. Ganking is acceptable gameplay. Ganking is not griefing. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 6:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/161 "2022-01-03T18:06:23Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > You’re implying that doing something ‘for the lulz’ is a one-sided affair, which takes no account of the presence of any ‘other’ actor-as-recipient. No I don’t. > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > No griefer will persist for long if a response is lacking; the ‘lulz’ are generated from the _response_. Prove it. I was talking about D2. People just came in, abused bugs, killed people, then left without a time for people to answer, like in 20s. There was no response for people. And they did it for months. So you are wrong. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > LOL, no he isn’t. Literally. Yes he is, literally. > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Griefing occurs when you engage in activity which the developers do not consider to be acceptable gameplay. No it does not. You are saying ■■■■ as usual, mister “correlation IS causation”. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880/162 "2022-01-03T18:09:58Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > No I don’t. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Prove it. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > you are wrong. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Yes he is, > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > No it does not. You argue like a petulant 10th-grader. I’ll leave it there. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/griefing-ruins-the-game/343880.md?page=9)