# Grumble Grumble, P2W, Capital Skill Books, Grumble Grumble **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 18, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501 "2020-10-18T21:51:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/66 "2020-10-19T23:37:35Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > significant advantages While this is true, that still does not mean that person is smarter then the one who does not. You can have all the isk you want, yet keep losing it as fast as you can undock if you don’t understand the game. The person who does not may be smarter and in the long run, get ahead of the plexer. But since there seems to be no more long term goals, the point is mote. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/67 "2020-10-19T23:38:40Z")
I can paint, but I’m no artist! 😭 ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/68 "2020-10-19T23:40:11Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > While this is true, that still does not mean that person is smarter then the one who does not. You can have all the isk you want, yet keep losing it as fast as you can undock if you don’t understand the game. The person who does not may be smarter and in the long run, get ahead of the plexer. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Except there’s also the case where someone who does know what they’re doing buys extra power and wins. Don’t pretend that the only RMTing is by clueless newbies. 5 characters ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/69 "2020-10-19T23:41:53Z")
A new Referral account is issued with 1 Millions Skill Points. A few packs in the store is not enough to considered pay to win and it is just a boost and most times it is the new pilot who purchases such. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/70 "2020-10-19T23:42:46Z")
People with friends have an unfair advantage in this game! Grumble grumble! ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/71 "2020-10-19T23:45:35Z")
The only friend is the one who gives away free stuff? ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/73 "2020-10-19T23:49:48Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Don’t pretend that the only RMTing is by clueless newbies. Hardly, but they seem to go straight to null to bot. That is not considered a new player, just another bot. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/74 "2020-10-19T23:50:57Z")
Does free isk count as well? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/75 "2020-10-19T23:55:43Z")
IDK I have zero friends. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 11:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/76 "2020-10-19T23:56:31Z")
You would have liked @Complex_Math - but I haven’t seen her in a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 12:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/77 "2020-10-20T00:01:59Z")
If Eve Online was pay to win then players would be able to buy systems like this one. ![visited](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/f/1f8089e58580ade20c7c7c85ee0680d34fd07d23.jpeg) / > [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > the new guys want to buy their way into a titan or battleship to start doing “nice things in the game” Why stop at a Titan how about your very own star system? ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 12:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/78 "2020-10-20T00:07:31Z")
I would give you isk, but I know you cant be bought. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 12:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/79 "2020-10-20T00:09:16Z")
I would fold quicker than a house of cards on a windy day. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 12:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/80 "2020-10-20T00:10:47Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > And why does _this_ specifically trigger you so much when players have always been able to buy PLEX, sell it on the market, and use the ISK to fund their purchase of skillbooks also off the market? ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/f/4/f4f61e3a5e9b566bd7dd0d926d2190200961e5d0.jpeg) I am not a super big fan of plex, but I accept it because it has other advantages -namely, it reduces profitability for RMT’ers (which hopefully reduces botting activity and the inflation they cause), it allows players to pay for Omega, MPTC’s, and NES cosmetic items with isk, and it gives players a good way to store wealth (especially if they go on break). Buying skill books directly from CCP has no such advantages, lessens the efficacy of the skill book isk sink, and reduces plex supply for those who buy it on the in-game market. So, yeah, the player can get the same skills using either method, but they aren’t playing in a vacuum. And the method they use has effects on things like plex prices, money supply, and inflation (not to mention the fact that it’s still ■■■■■■■ pay to win). > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > How does buying some Skillbooks connect to an “in-game advantage”? Once again, I’m left a little dumbfounded. Not to be insulting, but I guess I’ll break it down barney style. Skills are required to fly ships and use equipment, and they also give in-game bonuses to ship performance. Before you can train a skill, you have to buy it. It used to be that you’d have to grind isk for the skill books and then passively train the skills, but you can now skip that by paying cash directly to CCP. This allows those who pony up cash to progress at a faster rate than those that don’t\*, which gives them an advantage. \*Note: Once again, I have no issue with the differences between alpha’s and omegas for the reasons listed in an [earlier post from this thread](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/8). Also see the first paragraph of this post if your argument is, “yeah, but you could already do that by buying plex.” ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 12:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/81 "2020-10-20T00:16:43Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Buying skill books directly from CCP has no such advantages, lessens the efficacy of the skill book isk sink, and reduces plex supply for those who buy it on the in-game market. Are you buying it? No? Cool, stop getting offended for other people because of the potential that someone else buys a bad deal. The rest of your comment is you just continuing to get offended for other people. ---
**Author:** ![Xuxe\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuxe_xu/32/464660_2.png) [@Xuxe\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuxe_Xu)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 12:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/82 "2020-10-20T00:17:22Z")
> [@Radical\_Posture](#): > > Why would anyone spend… Because there are a lot of…er…Premium Customers™ out there and: ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/b/d/bd5fa60380a4423f153e66e2731aef390d1d01b7.gif) ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/5/c52b59e546bf59d4bab11546667edd1c0d12dbfa.jpeg) Look at the overall direction things are going…PA didn’t pay 425 millions for ccp to lose money. Although there will be some amusing kills as people buy their way into ships they don’t know how to use correctly, so that will be interesting to see. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 12:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/83 "2020-10-20T00:17:29Z")
I see no problem with plex. Its a necessary evil shall we say. I always thought skill injectors were the problem. They should limit them to sub caps? Meh… ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 12:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/84 "2020-10-20T00:29:31Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Skills are required to fly ships and use equipment, and they also give in-game bonuses to ship performance. Before you can train a skill, you have to buy it. It used to be that you’d have to grind isk for the skill books and then passively train the skills, but you can now skip that by paying cash directly to CCP. This allows those who pony up cash to progress at a faster rate than those that don’t\*, which gives them an advantage Difference between 3 different players all singly mining together in an fleet of Orca vs 1 player flying 3 Orca’s are friends as the player who had to grind all those years to buy the books and train the skills etc for their Orca would have friends. Good Friends even and Friends are more important than any pay to win scenario. Having a pay to win game style is lonely. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 12:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/85 "2020-10-20T00:31:15Z")
Exactly, I’m concerned that CCP is playing just-the-tip with us. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2020, 12:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501/86 "2020-10-20T00:37:34Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > I thought the point of the thin end of a wedge was that those opposed wont see the whole change till its right in there. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > I’m concerned that CCP is playing just-the-tip with us. I don’t have much faith either… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/grumble-grumble-p2w-capital-skill-books-grumble-grumble/274501.md?page=5)