# Gunnery equivalents to RLML and RHML **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [August 2, 2020, 2:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gunnery-equivalents-to-rlml-and-rhml/258051 "2020-08-02T02:52:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skip\_Lorry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skip_lorry/32/244808_2.png) [@Skip\_Lorry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skip_Lorry)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gunnery-equivalents-to-rlml-and-rhml/258051/21 "2020-08-05T14:14:24Z")
So, your counter-argument is that CCP got something right the first time? ![tenor](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/e/7/e7860416d69491a87a9109ed3488695c8a5a321d.gif) I identified an issue, a disparity in the usefulness of guns versus missiles in some circumstances, because missiles can hit smaller targets because of large launchers that are able to use smaller ammo. RHML were added only a few years ago. Missile ships were adjusted to give bonuses to their use. I suggest gunnery ships ought to get a buff to hitting smaller targets, too. ---
**Author:** ![Bronson\_Hughes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bronson_hughes/32/189075_2.png) [@Bronson\_Hughes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bronson_Hughes)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gunnery-equivalents-to-rlml-and-rhml/258051/22 "2020-08-05T15:11:12Z")
> [@Skip\_Lorry](#): > > I identified an issue… And subsequently had multiple posters explain why what you identified is both not as much of an issue as you make it out to be, why rapid launchers work for missiles due to differences in application mechanics, and why your proposed solution would likely be a step backwards for game balance. Time to let it go. ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 3:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gunnery-equivalents-to-rlml-and-rhml/258051/23 "2020-08-05T15:39:30Z")
I always perceived the change (adding rapid missile launchers) as being meant to address the fact that in PvE, turrets are already at an advantage over missiles in ranged engagements with PvE forces because tracking doesn’t matter at range due to crappy NPC AI: the NPCs fly straight down your throat until they get quite close. A straight-on approach doesn’t help missiles (it is actually detrimental to missile damage application, due to higher speeds available when flying straight vs maneuvering for angular velocity, and thus less of the explosion radius impacting the target ship), so, RLML and RHML addressed this imbalance for PvE fits. This is perfectly logical on the grounds that missile ships are kiters, not brawlers (rockets don’t fire from RLMLs, after all), and when comparing kite fits at range for both weapon types, tracking speed doesn’t make a meaningful difference in hitting approaching ships. Which is why the Sentry Domi fit is perfectly viable: from far enough away (50km+), the targets never maneuver out of a straight line approach and poor sentry tracking speed doesn’t hamper damage application because there isn’t any angular for tracking to matter. I can’t speak for PvP implications - I’ve always gone brawler for PvP, with turrets. ---
**Author:** ![Skip\_Lorry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skip_lorry/32/244808_2.png) [@Skip\_Lorry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skip_Lorry)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gunnery-equivalents-to-rlml-and-rhml/258051/24 "2020-08-05T15:51:44Z")
My security mission toon just switched to the speed tanked RHML Fleet Typhoon and it is aptly named: the lawnmower. The rail Megathron I was using before can’t even come close to clearing a mission pocket as quickly. It’s really quite ridiculous how superior it is to the alternatives. The only advantage the Mega has is that it doesn’t require much attention: just select targets (and launch drones at the frigates that manage to survive). While the RHML TFI requires some piloting around. But if I fly the Mega around to avoid damage, I can’t hit anything. An AC Machariel is also rather lacking by comparison to the RHML TFI. I mean, it does a good job, but it’s not like the lawnmower. If there were medium-tracking BS-sized AC, the AC Machariel could keep up. ---
**Author:** ![Bronson\_Hughes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bronson_hughes/32/189075_2.png) [@Bronson\_Hughes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bronson_Hughes)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gunnery-equivalents-to-rlml-and-rhml/258051/25 "2020-08-05T16:27:25Z")
> [@Skip\_Lorry](#): > > My security mission toon just switched to the speed tanked RHML Fleet Typhoon and it is aptly named: the lawnmower. The rail Megathron I was using before can’t even come close to clearing a mission pocket as quickly. So let me get this straight: you’re comparing a speed-tanked faction battleship using RHMLs to an (I’m guessing?) armor-tanked T1 battelship using railguns in terms of mission running performance, and because the former is superior to the latter you conclude that turrets are broken and higher tracking turrets options are necessary? Cue the obligatory “You did not think this through” video… [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/8/8/e8885dc0273cd3a33c6ecf07110389abd7067929.jpeg "Batman The Dark Knight- Blackmailing Batman") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z6o1GIEsQE&t=49) ---
**Author:** ![Skip\_Lorry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skip_lorry/32/244808_2.png) [@Skip\_Lorry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skip_Lorry)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gunnery-equivalents-to-rlml-and-rhml/258051/26 "2020-08-05T16:28:17Z")
Your Mom must hate talking to you. I also compared it to a shield-tanked AC pirate BS. I even compared the TFI to itself, but with turrets. Now go to your room. ---
**Author:** ![Bronson\_Hughes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bronson_hughes/32/189075_2.png) [@Bronson\_Hughes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bronson_Hughes)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gunnery-equivalents-to-rlml-and-rhml/258051/27 "2020-08-05T16:31:56Z")
> [@Skip\_Lorry](#): > > Your Mom must hate talking to you. Way to keep it classy there… ---
**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gunnery-equivalents-to-rlml-and-rhml/258051/28 "2020-08-28T05:20:16Z")
This post is similar to one posted some time ago: [Hello Fozzie, any update on a turret 'RHML/RLML' treatment?... :-)](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hello-fozzie-any-update-on-a-turret-rhml-rlml-treatment/235481) The proposal was a bit different but along the same lines of reasoning. Here is what I said in response to that post: > [@Hello Fozzie, any update on a turret 'RHML/RLML' treatment?... slight\_smile](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hello-fozzie-any-update-on-a-turret-rhml-rlml-treatment/235481/3): > > _ **the simplest solution would be to rename the modules so that they are no longer named in relation to smaller sizes** _ ; this would allow them to maintain their existing parameters with zero modifications, thereby maintaining the status quo and making it easier to modify in the future without having to do so under restraints imposed by smaller subsizes. The nice thing about the rename option is that it is not mutually exclusive with future iteration, but future iterations could be done without the restraints imposed by lower sizes. ---
**Author:** ![system1](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system1)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 5:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gunnery-equivalents-to-rlml-and-rhml/258051/29 "2020-11-26T05:20:17Z")
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