# HAC balance, what happened to it? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2018, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208 "2018-06-25T23:45:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/41 "2018-06-29T19:41:42Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > never seen an un neutable dual rep deimos before or something Sigh: > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > That said, there are two HACs that do lend themselves to small gang, and that’s the Deimos and the Vaga. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > so you made it up Interesting. By what logic do you use this? Show me a brawling doctrine anywhere that can compete with a kiting doctrine. They can’t. Brawling is so far from the current meta that it’s a completely different game. Your options are kiting or sniping these days (or capitals ofc). > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > who cares about mwd when youre in a blob > ab for smaller sig and long rang snipe Spoken like an idiot. A battleship cannot track either AB or MWD at close range. As a sniper boat, range dictation is kind of important, ergo going faster is essential. Warping off will keep you from whelping, but it’s pretty hard to hold the grid while you’re running away, am I right? There is zero good reason to fit an AB unless you’re expecting to get scrammed in which case you are probably better off dual-prop so that you can close distance at 3x the speed. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > there is no alpha strike with hacs On the contrary, we do it with cerbs all the time. There might be 150 of them playing the F1 monkey game, but just the same, it turns ■■■■ into a fine mist very quickly. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > are the only thing they have going for them which make them perfect for point roles Sorry, you must have thought we were talking about assault frigates. We aren’t. We’re talking about heavy assault cruisers. Why in the name of Bob would you bother fitting tackle on a HAC? Run a cepter or an AF if you want to tackle ■■■■. Or bring a dic, hic, lach, orth, etc. It’s like putting a battering ram on a submarine… sure you can do it, but it’s pretty ■■■■■■■ stupid. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/42 "2018-06-29T19:48:41Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > By what logic do you use this? Show me a brawling doctrine anywhere that can compete with a kiting doctrine eh i do it all the time by putting beams on my t1 punisher > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Your options are kiting or sniping what are we talking large scale fleet combat or small gangs in small gangs point range is everything you know because if youre 150km away i can just warp out whenever i want > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > A battleship cannot track either AB or MWD at close range guess you need to learn battleships never had a problem taking down frig/cruiser gangs in a rattlesnake > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > it’s pretty hard to hold the grid while you’re running away, am I right? and what do i wanna hold the grid for what benefit is that for me as a player > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > There is zero good reason to fit an AB unless you’re expecting to get scrammed yeah i always expect to get scrammed thats why i fly ab > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > There might be 150 of them playing the F1 monkey game, but just the same, it turns ■■■■ into a fine mist very quickly ah large fleets in null workhorse for the blue donut ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/43 "2018-06-29T20:10:58Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > eh i do it all the time by putting beams on my t1 punisher Sorry but “beam punishers” would get wrecked by any decent kiting doctrine. If you’re talking about landing tackle on something, yea, but a good kiting doctrine doesn’t GET tackled. That’s the point. Any brawling doctrine will beat a kiting doctrine if you tackle them… the problem is you can’t reliably tackle them and you’ll lose far more than you win. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > what are we talking large scale fleet combat or small gangs > in small gangs point range is everything > you know because if youre 150km away i can just warp out whenever i want I mean… you can warp off if you want to. If I’m on grid it’s to secure an objective. Citadel or sov for example. If you warp off, that objective is uncontested and we win what we were there to win. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > never had a problem taking down frig/cruiser gangs in a rattlesnake > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > track I’m not even sure _how_ you managed to fit guns on your Rattlesnake. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > and what do i wanna hold the grid for > what benefit is that for me as a player Winning whatever your objective is: FW, holding grid means you get the LP - I assume at least, I’ve never done it. Sov, holding grid means your toaster finishes their cycle and completion achieved. Citadel, holding grid means attacking/defending succeeds Camping gate, holding grid means destroying them or forcing them to crash the gate. In general, the benefit to you as a player is “op success”. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > yeah i always expect to get scrammed thats why i fly ab Without dual prop, you must get kited a lot. Or you just fight really shitty players. Your ~700m/s won’t keep up with or chase down much of anything. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > ah large fleets in null > workhorse for the blue donut Yes, large fleets in Null. As I originally said, the HAC lends itself best to large fleets, which you will most commonly find in nullsov. You debate that, and I acknowledge that you’re clearly playing a very different area of space than I. My knowledge of LS and small gang is quite limited; I just know that if I were doing small gang, it would be nanocrap (which to be honest I absolutely hate flying). ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/44 "2018-06-29T20:21:41Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Any brawling doctrine will beat a kiting doctrine if you tackle them… the problem is you can’t reliably tackle them and you’ll lose far more than you win what do you even play spaceships [quote=“Old\_Pervert, post:43, topic:85208”] If I’m on grid it’s to secure an objective. Citadel or sov for example. If you warp off, that objective is uncontested and we win what we were there to win. [/quote] fw sites just screwing with militias > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > I’m not even sure _how_ you managed to fit guns on your Rattlesnake i didnt only a dumbass would do that i use missiles and drones like any rs user would > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Winning whatever your objective is: > FW, holding grid means you get the LP - I assume at least, I’ve never done it. > Sov, holding grid means your toaster finishes their cycle and completion achieved. > Citadel, holding grid means attacking/defending succeeds > Camping gate, holding grid means destroying them or forcing them to crash the gate. its all garbage the only objective is to win a fight wherever it happens think i care about space objectives i play for gfs nothing else > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Without dual prop, you must get kited a lot. Or you just fight really shitty players. Your ~700m/s won’t keep up with or chase down much of anything. with only 2 mids i dont get many options i can scram ab or run away > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Yes, large fleets in Null. As I originally said, the HAC lends itself best to large fleets ah now were moving the goalposts because idgaf about crappy sov warfare i only care about gang fights which is why i suggested the hac should be balanced for gang fights ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/45 "2018-06-29T20:30:24Z")
the other funny thing is i dont see how hacs lend themselves to sov warfare since the nerf of nano hacs in the past nano hacs were brutal but they were nerfed for that reason so explain how hacs are amazing in sov warfare vs bs doctrines ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/46 "2018-06-29T20:31:17Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > what > do you even play spaceships All time. Do you? > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > fw sites just screwing with militias Okay, go ahead and show me how you can screw with them while you’re in warp. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > i didnt only a dumbass would do that > i use missiles and drones like any rs user would The non facetious answer is that you don’t “TRACK” targets with a rattlesnake. Their application drawbacks are moot against frigates and cruisers unless you’re rocking cruise/torps. Neither an AB nor an MWD will allow a HAC to sig tank anything under cruise/torp, and even then cruise would probably still “work”. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > its all garbage > the only objective is to win a fight > wherever it happens think i care about space objectives > i play for gfs > nothing else Fair enough. I don’t needlessly stick my hand into a blender when I want to grab a snack… when I go to fight something, I go because one or both sides have something go gain and/or lose. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > with only 2 mids i dont get many options > i can scram ab or run away You may not have heard, but the Zealot has the lowest number of mid slots of any of the HACs… and it has 3 mids. Either that or my version of Pyfa is incredibly out of date. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/47 "2018-06-29T20:36:07Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > show me how you can screw with them while you’re in warp. what the ■■■■ are you on about > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Neither an AB nor an MWD will allow a HAC to sig tank anything under cruise/torp, and even then cruise would probably still “work”. sig tank works at any range i know youre probably an old guy so im gonna go easy on you out of respect for my elders old people play eve too and i respect you can be someones grandparent so i will try my hardest not to hurt your feelings > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > I don’t needlessly stick my hand into a blender when I want to grab a snack… when I go to fight something, I go because one or both sides have something go gain and/or lose. its a sandbox i dont need a valid reason to seek a good fight its not like you gain anything by fighting for a dummy alliance anyway > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > You may not have heard, but the Zealot has the lowest number of mid slots of any of the HACs… and it has 3 mids. Either that or my version of Pyfa is incredibly out of date. i was actually referrencing my t1 punisher which i use with reckless abandon ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/48 "2018-06-29T20:40:03Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > the other funny thing is i dont see how hacs lend themselves to sov warfare since the nerf of nano hacs > in the past nano hacs were brutal but they were nerfed for that reason > so explain how hacs are amazing in sov warfare vs bs doctrines Happy to. Probably about 2 weeks ago we fought a nightmare gang with Cerbs. They were beam fit, we were HML fit. Our HMLs hit out to 180km, pretty sure 200 with drugs. They couldn’t hit us at all, while we were railing on them. We were faster than them, they couldn’t burn in. We were more agile than them, which meant they couldn’t warp in. We beat the ever living snot out of them and there was absolutely nothing they could do about it. We were there to defend a citadel, so leaving grid would mean losing the citadel. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > sig tank works at any range i know youre probably an old guy so im gonna go easy on you out of respect for my elders > > old people play eve too and i respect you can be someones grandparent so i will try my hardest not to hurt your feelings Ad hominem is a classic fallback when you’ve no further logic to use as an actual counter-argument. Feel free to concede if you wish, I won’t gloat. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > its a sandbox > i dont need a valid reason to seek a good fight > its not like you gain anything by fighting for a dummy alliance anyway Sounds like you answered yourself. I don’t deny that your “search for GFs” is a valid playstyle. I merely assert that “strategic objectives” is also a valid playstyle. In a sandbox where the players make the game what it is. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > i was actually referrencing my t1 punisher which i use with reckless abandon Brilliant… you argue about your T1 frigate in a thread about HACs. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/49 "2018-06-29T20:47:03Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Happy to. Probably about 2 weeks ago we fought a nightmare gang with Cerbs. > > They were beam fit, we were HML fit. Our HMLs hit out to 180km, pretty sure 200 with drugs. They couldn’t hit us at all, while we were railing on them. We were faster than them, they couldn’t burn in. We were more agile than them, which meant they couldn’t warp in. We beat the ever living snot out of them and there was absolutely nothing they could do about it. We were there to defend a citadel, so leaving grid would mean losing the citadel. what the hell was it an incursion fleet or something what alliance fielded those nightmares > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Ad hominem is a classic fallback when you’ve no further logic to use as an actual counter-argument. Feel free to concede if you wish, I won’t gloat. im not gloating sig tank works and always has done thats why webs exist > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > I don’t deny that your “search for GFs” is a valid playstyle. I merely assert that “strategic objectives” is also a valid playstyle. In a sandbox where the players make the game what it is. i will argue that gf playstyle can supercede objective playstyle and has done for many years just look at the killboards marmite collective suicide gankers and people just wanting to ■■■■ around > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Brilliant… you argue about your T1 frigate in a thread about HACs. yeah my punisher is like a little hac i can get in novice sites like a mini zealot ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/50 "2018-06-29T20:47:14Z")
HACs and AFs kind of had no real use before that I can see. I guess Cerbs were okay for some skirmish fleets… but for most roles there were always cheaper options that were more effective. After seeing Eagles in action several times and hearing about uses for other HACs from others… HACs now have a use. After using several AF’s, I definitely see them filling a role now. The Sacrilege is a joy. I’m simply happy with where they are. Perhaps some might be a bit too good… but they’re not cheap. Further balance passes seem like a low priority to me. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/51 "2018-06-29T20:52:53Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > what the hell was it an incursion fleet or something > what alliance fielded those nightmares Nightmares are quite effective actually. They need a titan bridge so that you don’t slit your wrists traveling in them, but they can hold grid very well. I don’t recall which group had fielded the nightmares, but they were a subsection of Goons, I remember that much. They evac’d after they couldn’t kill us. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > im not gloating sig tank works and always has done > thats why webs exist Yes… and in a thread where we’re talking about **HACs** using their speed/radius to reduce the damage about missiles, I’m saying that **HACs** cannot effectively mitigate the damage of any missile smaller than a cruise missile. That sig tanking missiles works at any distance is irrelevant; you can’t sig tank at any distance with a **HAC** against missiles. I’m not asserting that HMLs apply perfectly to HACs, I’m asserting that they apply well enough to give them a real hard time. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > i will argue that gf playstyle can supercede objective playstyle and has done for many years > just look at the killboards > marmite collective suicide gankers and people just wanting to ■■■■ around Feel free to provide quantifiable examples to prove this argument. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > yeah my punisher is like a little hac i can get in novice sites > like a mini zealot Cool story. Problem is… it… um. It isn’t relevant. At all. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/52 "2018-06-29T20:59:56Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > They need a titan bridge so that you don’t slit your wrists traveling in them, but they can hold grid very well. I don’t recall which group had fielded the nightmares, but they were a subsection of Goons, I remember that much. They evac’d after they couldn’t kill us. so they’re not actually good no name chumps beaten by hac fleet > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > I’m saying that **HACs** cannot effectively mitigate the damage of any missile smaller than a cruise missile. That sig tanking missiles works at any distance is irrelevant; you can’t sig tank at any distance with a **HAC** firewall ever heard of it ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/53 "2018-06-29T21:04:07Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > so they’re not actually good > no name chumps beaten by hac fleet Best FCs in the game would have made the same call. They came to bash the structure, we brought a hard counter. All they could do was leave… which unfortunate for our range advantage meant we couldn’t stop them from leaving. But we saved the structure, which was what we had all come to do. Had they brought a different doctrine, we could have brought a different one too. Regardless, you asked for an example, and I gave you a real-world this-actually-happened example. It’s not uncommon. Just a few days ago we were out in cerbs taking potshots at Abaddons. They were tanky (obviously) and we couldn’t break them until more numbers rallied, but they certainly weren’t a threat to us. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > firewall ever heard of it The only firewall I’ve ever heard of is dreads running offset burst jammers to mess with fighters. So if that’s what you’re talking about, I haven’t a clue what the relevance is. Are you in need of another dose of ritalin to stay on topic? ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/54 "2018-06-29T21:10:53Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Best FCs in the game would have made the same call. they wouldnt field full nightmare fleet > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > All they could do was leave… which unfortunate only unfortunate if they care about a piece of crappy sov space like you said objectives people have needlessly expensive attachments to parts of space that dont matter so much theyre willing to lose a badly matched fleet to defend it but +1 to your guys for forcing them out of their dumb little safety net > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > The only firewall I’ve ever heard of is dreads running offset burst jammers to mess with fighters. eh maybe im to old for this game in the past heavy tank ships would run smart bombs to destroy incoming missiles before they could land it was a technique known as firewall but yeah i think the alliance that used that technique is long dead i think myself and a couple others destroyed them and a few other alliances by cutting off the badi pipeline you know for gfs ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/55 "2018-06-29T21:15:57Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > they wouldnt field full nightmare fleet I fly with some of the best FCs in this game. They fly with nightmares when the situation calls for it. Like I said, it’s a very effective platform if you use it correctly in the right circumstances. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > only unfortunate if they care about a piece of crappy sov space > like you said > objectives > people have needlessly expensive attachments to parts of space that dont matter > so much theyre willing to lose a badly matched fleet to defend it > but +1 to your guys for forcing them out of their dumb little safety net Shrug. I could trade barbs, or I could just ignore this as irrelevant and not contributing to the discussion. I don’t like picking on people with mental deficiencies so I’ll leave that one alone. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > eh maybe im to old for this game > in the past heavy tank ships would run smart bombs to destroy incoming missiles before they could land > it was a technique known as firewall but yeah > i think the alliance that used that technique is long dead > i think myself and a couple others destroyed them and a few other alliances by cutting off the badi pipeline > you know > for gfs Oh, that firewall. No that stopped working a long time ago. CCP optimized their code when they changed defender missiles to target bombs; missiles aren’t “in space” anymore (identical to turret ammo). You can’t hit/intercept them with SBs anymore. You’ll see them flying through space, but they’re only a graphic. Made major fights a lot less difficult to run the numbers on, which is always a good thing in my world because 6k people in a system is… um… kind of disappointing actually. But the potential if they can get it to a playable state… mm. Edit: More to the point though, go ahead and fit a large smartbomb on a HAC (without gimping the HAC). A medium wouldn’t work because the range would be too small to hit it before the missile hits you, gotta remember ■■■■ happens on 1 second ticks. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/56 "2018-06-29T21:22:40Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > fly with some of the best FCs in this game. They fly with nightmares when the situation calls for it. Like I said, it’s a very effective platform if you use it correctly in the right circumstances. which it obviously wasnt if they lost to a bunch of dumb hacks and too dumb to just fly away > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Shrug. I could trade barbs, or I could just ignore this as irrelevant and not contributing to the discussion. I don’t like picking on people with mental deficiencies so I’ll leave that one alone. sorry i dont get attached to a part of space i know i can exploit for free > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > No that stopped working a long time ago. CCP optimized their code when they changed defender missiles to target bombs yeah i thought something like that happened like an attempt to make missiles meta which they already were in small fights > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > More to the point though, go ahead and fit a large smartbomb on a HAC no bses use the sbs not the hacs ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/57 "2018-06-29T21:40:53Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > which it obviously wasnt if they lost to a bunch of dumb hacks and too dumb to just fly away Please… read harder. > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > They evac’d after they couldn’t kill us. You seem set on the idea that nightmares aren’t effective platforms. So I’ll quote something you said to very accurately answer that argument: > [@Soraellion](#): > > Or is this just a case of “I’m not capable of using a different perspective than my own”. Yea. Very much that. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > bses use the sbs not the hacs Which I’m sure would have worked great until we switch to Eagles or Ishtars, both of which have excellent sniping configurations. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/58 "2018-06-29T21:46:14Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > You seem set on the idea that nightmares aren’t effective platforms. i’ve killed a lot of nightmares who strayed out of incursion space into lowsec never seen them in actual pvp fleets > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Which I’m sure would have worked great until we switch to Eagles or Ishtars, both of which have excellent sniping configurations. okay dude good luck sniping someone who left the scene bofeore you could press f1 ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/59 "2018-06-29T21:52:27Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > i’ve killed a lot of nightmares who strayed out of incursion space into lowsec > never seen them in actual pvp fleets Yea, try fighting a fleet of them while they’re holding an objective. Very different. They can track incredibly well, they can hit out quite a ways (obviously not as far as cerbs), they’re hella-fast for battleships, and they’ve got enough buffer to hold until reps land. Fighting PVE-fit nightmares that don’t have support is very different than fighting PVP fit nightmares that have support. It’s not even close to the same thing. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > good luck sniping someone who left the scene bofeore you could press f1 And again… my goal was to win the objective. That was my fight. Your goal is different, fine, I honestly don’t care. MY goal, and that of the other 150-600 dudes I end up in a fleet with, was to win the objective. If you want to make it easier for me by warping off, GL and HF. I’ll take that every day of the week. Why? Because maybe that citadel we just defended was our capital staging point to hit deep into hostile space. Maybe that citadel we just destroyed was their capital staging point, and now all their crap just went into asset safety. There are many reasons why. Whether _you_ would quantify them as fun is irrelevant. I quantify them as fun. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/60 "2018-06-29T22:05:17Z")
well im not gonna brag but my main this is my main now but i still roll with my old main racked up 1.36 tr in solo kills and its not like fleet fights its ambushes i set up myself and with friends 1.36 tr in kills and 40bn in losses on my main so i think i know a thing or two [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208.md?page=4)