# HAC balance, what happened to it? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2018, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208 "2018-06-25T23:45:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/61 "2018-06-29T22:08:50Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > well im not gonna brag but my main > this is my main now but i still roll with my old main > racked up 1.36 tr in solo kills > and its not like fleet fights > its ambushes i set up myself and with friends > 1.36 tr in kills and 40bn in losses on my main > so i think i know a thing or two Cool story bro. You’re pretty badass. I bet you do know a thing or two. Clearly though, HACs don’t have a lot to do with your playstyle. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/62 "2018-06-29T22:10:15Z")
i killed a lot of them ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/63 "2018-06-29T22:20:44Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > i killed a lot of them How many did you kill after they were recently rebalanced? And did you consider my original argument that they were intended for large fleets? You quite likely were not ambushing large fleets of HACs. Is it not at all possible that the reason for your success is that you were able to catch them outside of their element? It’s not unlike the nightmares. You swing your dick around and thump your chest that you can kill incursion nightmares. Cool. How do you think it would have turned out if you were fighting a PVP fleet instead of some dumb bastard that wandered into your AOO by accident? ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/64 "2018-06-29T22:25:36Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > How many did you kill after they were recently rebalanced? idk because most of them i killed after the rattlesnake was rebalanced so i was able to kill a lot > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > And did you consider my original argument that they were intended for large fleets? no because you made that up > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > You quite likely were not ambushing large fleets of HACs no i ambushed small gangs like 5v1 then friends turn up 3v1 then a few more point me and cant break my unbreakable tank prolly 20 frigs and cruisers dead and i go home > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Is it not at all possible that the reason for your success is that you were able to catch them outside of their element? idk i just roam around looking for fights if theyre not prepared why should i care > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > It’s not unlike the nightmares. You swing your dick around and thump your chest that you can kill incursion nightmares. Cool. How do you think it would have turned out if you were fighting a PVP fleet instead of some dumb bastard that wandered into your AOO by accident? if they wander in by accident they should stop calling reinforcements take down this unbeatable rs im not saying rs is unbeatable i lost a few but i beat hella more in kills than i lost ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/65 "2018-06-29T22:26:11Z")
and before that i mostly used tengu but i grew out of tengu after pirate ship rebalance and said rs is the way to go ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/66 "2018-06-29T22:33:19Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > idk because most of them i killed after the rattlesnake was rebalanced so i was able to kill a lot So… None. Got it. Come back when you’ve got some actual experience in the matter. I fly HACs almost daily. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > no because you made that up I also qualified that argument with supporting evidence, which to this point not a single part has been even remotely refuted. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > no i ambushed small gangs like 5v1 then friends turn up 3v1 then a few more point me and cant break my unbreakable tank > > prolly 20 frigs and cruisers dead and i go home So like I said: > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Is it not at all possible that the reason for your success is that you were able to catch them outside of their element? You’re literally proving my point. You can kill them when they’re in small gangs. Large gangs would take one look at you and swat you with slight annoyance while they go find a good fight that’s actually worth their time. THey’re designed to be run in large gangs. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > idk i just roam around looking for fights if theyre not prepared why should i care You shouldn’t. I’d have no compunctions with ganking anything from a velator to a super. But to say that nightmares suck because I took a fight they had no chance of winning holds as much water as me saying that because me and 100 of my friends could gank you, you suck at pvp. It’s obviously not true, because it’s not an accurate reflection of reality. The same argument holds true for HACs. You keep saying you can kill them, I keep saying it’s because you haven’t seen them used the way they’re designed to be used. So, I’ll say it again. Go ahead and provide some actual counter-points to my argument. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/67 "2018-06-29T22:37:04Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Large gangs would take one look at you and swat you what is a large gang is 6v1 not a large gang followed by 5v1 follewed by buddies and hangers on without respite all on one gate and i solo them all and kill them is that not one person taking on a large gang without support or respite the only reason i die is because i run out of cap boosters ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 2:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/68 "2018-06-30T02:01:02Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > what is a large gang Depends who you ask. To us, large gang is 100+. Medium gang is 50-99, small gang is 10-49, and anything less than 10 is a microgang. For CTAs \>1000 is certainly known to happen. Ask the goons and that could easily go up to 5000 for a CTA. To you, 6 is apparently a large gang. To us it generally isn’t even enough to warrant stopping to engage on account of the gate aggression timer. We’ll just ignore them unless they get the bright idea to die in a fire. If we’re ahead of schedule, sure, we’ll do it for the lulz but they’re all dead and podded before most of the fleet has even gotten a target lock. ---
**Author:** ![Nico\_Boru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nico_boru/32/64941_2.png) [@Nico\_Boru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nico_Boru)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/69 "2018-06-30T03:19:37Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > yeah thats why i said nerf the dps > make them into catchy probe boats rather than dps combat boats Then they stop being Heavy Assult Cruisers and become Heavy Tackles Cruisers. The Assult in HAC implies DPS because they are to drive into the face of the enemy (Demios at least) and unleash hell while hero tackle Aries takes off and catches reps. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 7:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/70 "2018-06-30T07:05:56Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > To us it generally isn’t even enough to warrant stopping to engage on account of the gate aggression timer. you mean moving in a large fleet so you just ignore all the good content to go shoot a structure well each to their own ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 7:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/71 "2018-06-30T07:06:44Z")
> [@Nico\_Boru](#): > > The Assult in HAC implies DPS nah it implies assault to me getting point is an assault ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 7:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/72 "2018-06-30T07:20:43Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > so you just ignore all the good content to go shoot a structure That’s my point… for us, 6 ships is boring. It’s not “good content”, it’s a whole 6 kills. Bear in mind when we go to fight, we’re looking for 60 kills. We’re looking for capital kills. I mean, ■■■■… one good bombing run and you’re looking at potentially hundreds of kills. It’s like for you to stop and shoot an autopiloting pod. You know it’s gonna be empty 99.9% of the time, so stopping to shoot it might be funny to think about dude coming back to find himself back in his deathclone station. But you need to decide whether that lul is worth gate gun aggro (annoying and possibly disruptive if you’re camping the gate - never know what will come through while you’re pinging off). You need to decide if it’s worth the sec status hit (perhaps you do all your market stuff on an alt, don’t know… the concept is relevant). For us, stopping to aggro for that, disrupts us. An aggro timer is more than enough nuisance for the FC to simply say “meh”. ---
**Author:** ![Nico\_Boru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nico_boru/32/64941_2.png) [@Nico\_Boru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nico_Boru)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/73 "2018-06-30T19:03:54Z")
Youre wrong. Assult is a damaging attack with fist and boot, knife and gun; or in Eve, what ever you have fitted to your turret or launcher hard point or even your drone bay. If you want a tackle cruiser, use an arazu or lach, min has the rapier I believe, or get a HIC. HACs are for shooting and killing with. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/74 "2018-06-30T19:30:26Z")
Drones on the Zealot and Eagle. So utterly useful. And even more tidi potential for the server. Bravo CCP. Why doesn’t the Zealot just get more armor and a bit of speed to compensate for that and more PG to fit T2 fittings properly? That would be suitable for a nice armor brawler and long range platform. Why doesn’t the Eagle get more sensor strength so that it can benefit more from the long range capabilities and switch targets faster. I believe all HAC could benefit from more scan res (ceptors and bombers beware) and PG/CPU in general to make them easier to fit. Lock range is fine. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/75 "2018-06-30T20:18:13Z")
indeed, as much as I can understand that fitting T1 on T1 ships is normal, T2 ships are supposed to be able to fit T2 stuff at least. BTW why do the shield HAc are able to fit a XL SB while the armor hacs can’t fit a large armor rep II ?( I know both are BS sized) ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Gideon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marcus_gideon/32/141713_2.png) [@Marcus\_Gideon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marcus_Gideon)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/76 "2018-06-30T20:27:23Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > indeed, as much as I can understand that fitting T1 on T1 ships is normal, T2 ships are supposed to be able to fit T2 stuff at least. > > BTW why do the shield HAc are able to fit a XL SB while the armor hacs can’t fit a large armor rep II ?( I know both are BS sized) They can fit T2, just not necessarily all the various T2 you intend to fit. But I agree, a little more resources would mean a better fitting strategy. And the favoritism towards shields has been known for ages. As you said, oversized shield mods are totally accepted, but armor mods are strictly limited. It’s basically impossible to fit anything other than the intended size. On top of that, you can get away with several oversized Ancillary shield boosters b/c they’ll feed off Cap charges first. But you can’t get away with Ancillary armor b/c all they do is drain you dry and burn Paste. ---
**Author:** ![Nico\_Boru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nico_boru/32/64941_2.png) [@Nico\_Boru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nico_Boru)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/77 "2018-06-30T21:21:37Z")
I think the shield favorism is directly tied to the Nestor. ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 11:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/78 "2018-07-03T11:12:52Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > instead they should be tanky and catchy > kinda like hics but more suited for smaller gangs now thats what am talking about, it’d be really nice if HACs were as usefull in other areas of the game as they are in NS blobs. The whole term “Assault Cruiser” to me just screams of fast closing, tanky, short range with high DPS burst but lower sustain. Instead we get kiting HACs, some really slow ones, their unfriendly to small / solo content. This is the part that I was hoping they would address somewhat when they said they were going to rebalance HACs, instead they abandoned it. ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/79 "2018-07-03T14:31:42Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > nah it implies assault > to me getting point is an assault Not to me. For me assault = damage (by fist or gun or whatever). Not the guy holding down the person being assaulted. If one person holds you still while the other punches you in the face… while both are taking part, the one landing the punches is going to be viewed as the assaulting party. The guy holding you down is just assisting him with the assault. HIC = guy holding you down. HAC = guy punching you. ---
**Author:** ![Nico\_Boru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nico_boru/32/64941_2.png) [@Nico\_Boru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nico_Boru)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/80 "2018-07-03T16:59:14Z")
> [@Fluffy\_Moe](#): > > The whole term “Assault Cruiser” to me just screams of fast closing, tanky, short range with high DPS burst but lower sustain. Instead we get kiting HACs, some really slow ones, their unfriendly to small / solo content. Solo in the kitey ones. Get a friend to run tackle for the slow ones… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208.md?page=5)