# HAC balance, what happened to it? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2018, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208 "2018-06-25T23:45:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Remiel\_Pollard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remiel_pollard/32/242272_2.png) [@Remiel\_Pollard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remiel_Pollard)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 8:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/161 "2018-07-06T08:58:25Z")
Well, at least you’re not a pussy kiter 😆 Props for autocannons. Arties are for gankers and f1 monkies. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 10:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/162 "2018-07-06T10:53:11Z")
Thats what I expected. I think you are making it unduly hard on yourself. Im not a fan of Vagabond. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/163 "2018-07-06T12:14:32Z")
_cough_ 100mn vaga beats that 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/164 "2018-07-06T12:21:53Z")
My dear boy, this is not an epeen competition. I am well aware of the 100mn AB fit, just that I prefer to use this cheap fit which is fun and effective and I have used it to good effect. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/165 "2018-07-06T12:40:48Z")
Thats the stupid thing with Vaga. The HAC MWD bonus helps you close in, but not much else. With a 100mn AB, you wreck your own tracking. The speed is a bit redundant on Vaga, since its arty fit is limited by PG, and kiting with AC is pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/166 "2018-07-06T12:42:32Z")
The 100mn is not all that more expensive tbh To each their own I guess lol ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 12:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/167 "2018-07-06T12:45:13Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > With a 100mn AB, you wreck your own tracking. I don’t use the 100mn much when I’m actually shooting It’s more for pain-free relocating 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 1:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/168 "2018-07-06T13:36:34Z")
My point being its always been stupid that minnie projectile ships hurt their own tracking with the minnie speed characteristic, especially with medium ACs which still seem to have a very strange hit/crit/miss ratio, even within optimal. Except for Loki, which suddenly became a better missile ship, than a projectile one. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/169 "2018-07-06T14:20:49Z")
Lokis are still very good gun platforms, but yto Stat on the subject, most Minnie boats have a good tracking bonus allowing them some still decent on-the-move accuracy ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/170 "2018-07-06T14:53:14Z")
I think when you’re running arty, you need to actually pilot your ship to really take value from the speed/arty mix. Basically, change your vector to reduce transversal when you volley, and then increase transversal again. Properly flown, you maintain speed tank advantages in addition to taking full advantage of the (relatively) long cycle time of 720s. ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/171 "2018-07-06T18:18:07Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > > [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > > > No, an eagle solo cannot kill an arty mach solo as fast. But 300 eagles will alpha a mach ever volley, while the 300 mach’s would only kill the eagles once every 15 seconds (given smart use of the ADC). > > so you would need the intel to know who theyre gonna primary so they know who is gonna get alphad > > > [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > > > reship your HAC’s to BS of your own when that happens > > so what you can just reship mid fight > like the whole fleet takes a jump bridge back to station or something > sorry i havent done sov warfare in years so i dont get where the ships are coming from 1. Yellow boxing is a big clue. A good enough FC with a disciplined fleet can probably cause a HAC defending fleet to burn ADC uses… but that is simply a factor of the skill of the players. 2. For defenders… often yes. You have a timer where you know when the battle could happen… either from the structure or the sov structure. Because of that even if it’s not by your main staging you’ll often have several doctrines available at a staging citadel nearby. ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/172 "2018-07-06T18:29:11Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > > > When the fleet yellowboxes you, you hit your ADC > > but then everyone would adc at the same time > at what point in a fleet engagement is everyone not yellowboxed > i think you maybe confuse yellowbox with redbox You don’t target the opponent’s fleet… you target a ship. If you see all 300 reds start yellowboxing you… they cant’ be targeting more than 4-5 other ships. They can’t target your entire fleet. If you watch youtube videos of fleet battles with sound… you’ll hear some examples of a FC target calling. They’ll call a primary and who’s “next”… usually the fleet is only locking up those that are called. When you see EVERY red start yellowboxing you… that’s a hint you’re going to be fired on soon. You can only have a small number of hacs at most locked by the majority of the other fleet. This is also when non-hac fleets might start to call for reps if there isn’t enough damage in the other fleet to alpha them in one shot. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/173 "2018-07-07T21:44:39Z")
> [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > This is also when non-hac fleets might start to call for reps if there isn’t enough damage in the other fleet to alpha them in one shot. Even if there is, the fleet will never be coordinated enough to fire a single volley. There’s always some lagging, there’s always some idiot who tabbed over to something, focused on an alt, etc. By broadcasting for reps, especially with armor, your logistics can start landing reps on you as the damage comes in over several ticks. Can be enough to save your ship from a volley, at which point you get repped up to full and they need to try again. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hac-balance-what-happened-to-it/85208/174 "2018-10-05T21:44:49Z")
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