# Have you seen Salvos, or Teckos? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 13, 2018, 9:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450 "2018-06-13T09:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 11:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/211 "2018-06-14T23:07:26Z")
> [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > Do tell, what’s your stance on both the free market and net neutrality? Which one do you prefer more? It’s an exclusive or choice, you can’t have both. Oh but you can. It seriously puzzles me that people only think in extremes when it comes to those things. Deregulation makes sense in a lot of places where those self regulating market mechanisms can work. In other areas it makes absolutely no sense at all, because some resources are limited and then those mechanisms don’t work anymore. For net neutrality for example it makes sense to be regulated if you don’t have the choice between different providers because of infrastructure limitations. If everyone had the choice of 3 providers then the mechanisms would work and regulations could go away. Where I live a net neutrality law is not needed because there are multiple providers everywhere and some of them even started to advertise as being net neutral without a law. That does not mean they are, but one of them clearly is, so that is where I get my internet 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Nitshe\_Razvedka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nitshe_razvedka/32/18392_2.png) [@Nitshe\_Razvedka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nitshe_Razvedka)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 2:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/212 "2018-06-15T02:10:34Z")
> [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > You’re the world leaders in > > - people with obesity > - incarcerated citizens > - people that believe angels are real Damn, proudly thought we had that damn obesity record in Oz?!!? Being a fat okker Norm was iconic of being Strine. We did have white slavery though, convict history, but those with ancestry are proud and think nothing of victimhood. Life was just a buggger then. We believe in Bunyips, does that count for angels? Thought we were the greatest cuntry in the world, we pisss on the septics in everything else. Just ask us, we’re 'king gud! ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 6:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/213 "2018-06-15T06:50:15Z")
206 posts. I thank the mods. \*_bows\*_ \*_reading\*_ ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 7:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/214 "2018-06-15T07:15:41Z")
![HERESSALVOS](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/9/a/9a6cd1852c332f173cc5eba70fdb99ed217e8d67.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 7:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/215 "2018-06-15T07:22:08Z")
You’re good! ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 7:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/216 "2018-06-15T07:30:30Z")
Ok. He’s back. Lock the thread. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 7:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/217 "2018-06-15T07:33:08Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > For net neutrality for example it makes sense to be regulated if you don’t have the choice between different providers because of infrastructure limitations. If everyone had the choice of 3 providers then the mechanisms would work and regulations could go away. You’re forgetting here that those providers aren’t following any ethics, or playing nice by the books. They will ruthlessly cut the cables of their competition when laying their own (Comcast / AT&T do that all the time) and they will lower the price so much that a small ISP won’t be able to compete anyway. The free market and capitalism _always_ end the same, if given enough time. In monopolies / duopolies. Squeezing as much profit out of the population as is possible, with no regard for the population at all. If it gives them more money providing only 50% of the population with their product at a high cost, than providing it to 100% at a lower cost, they will only provide it for 50% of the population. They will also favor their own products over that of the competition any time, abusing their monopoly powers to enter new markets. Just look at Google and Amazon, they do that all the time despite anti-trust laws being in place. Just imagine if those laws wouldn’t exist. Look at US healthcare, the most expensive worldwide by several orders of magnitude. _That_ is the free market and capitalism at work. Be realistic. This perfect free market you’re dreaming about, where all the players are playing nice with their competition, doesn’t exist. A free / capitalist market is serving only corporations and the rich at the expense of everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 7:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/218 "2018-06-15T07:58:26Z")
You are talking to a wall with this argumentation. Someone who says deregulation can work anywhere is not receptive to proof of the exact opposite taking place everywhere in the world. Ima even believes that there is a choice between providers, when in fact most smaller or competing providers are just subsidiaries or affiliates of the biggest players on the market in order to dispel the appearance of a monopoly or oligopoly. How well deregulation really works is most evident in the US with the ever growing concentration of power in the hands of ever fewer companies. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 7:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/219 "2018-06-15T07:58:31Z")
Amazing posts. I especially like how people believe that “words do harm”, but “suicide ganking is okay” … … while being completely incapable of thinking any deeper than that. But that’s you guys … and I will save that “Pandora’s Box” for the next thread. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 7:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/220 "2018-06-15T07:59:32Z")
There is this huge image about how a few multinational companies actually own hundreds of brands, creating the illusion of competition. I gotta look for it. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 8:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/221 "2018-06-15T08:14:57Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > Deregulation makes sense in a lot of places where those self regulating market mechanisms can work. The free market idea states that as soon as there are no more laws intervening in the production and/or exchange of commodities, there would be a positive effect for all participants. This is wrong in so many ways, to name just the basics: The absense of any form of state intervention on trade would lead to one of two things: 1. The end of the market because it gets replaced by a more just system, that works without the majority being extorted into taking part in an unfair exchange 2. The end of the market because of the destruction of nature or humans or both, as the result of the unhindered dictatorship of the profit logic above any human reason Supporters of the free market idea usually aim for something else: It’s one of their ways of lobbying the state for profit-friendly legistlation for themselves. As soon as the workers go on strike, the same companies will call for the state power to stop them. As soon as outside competition comes in, they’ll call for the state to introduce protective measures. As soon as they go bankrupt, they’ll call for the state to bail them out with tax money. And so on. > [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > For net neutrality for example it makes sense to be regulated if you don’t have the choice between different providers because of infrastructure limitations. If everyone had the choice of 3 providers then the mechanisms would work and regulations could go away. > > Where I live a net neutrality law is not needed because there are multiple providers everywhere and some of them even started to advertise as being net neutral without a law. That does not mean they are, but one of them clearly is, so that is where I get my internet The telecommunications market is a heavily monopolized place. Behind loads of different brands you’ll find the same owner structures. This is a trend that has only grown stronger over the last decade or so. In some places you have quasi natural monopolies, due to high cost of market entry or difficult legislation. Taken that at the end of the chain any business is only successful if its profit is rising, the idea of making bank on the unequal treatment of data streams is quite old. You probably already have that in your country, without feeling much of the consequences. Net neutrality laws were an insightful reaction, when it became obvious that this will be a long term strategy of ISPs and it will lead to both predictable and unpredictable problems in the everyday workings of any country and its economy. They are basically a declaration that nowadays the ability to communicate using digital means is as basic a need as water or sewer systems to keep things afloat. That and also a reaction to the extremely negative consequences deregulation had on the situation in the US. In Europe you have the ones who want to learn from the mistakes the US legislation made in times before Obama and the ones who want to ignore them. Ignoring those mistakes is just blindly falling into the same trap. Deregulation will lead to stronger monopolization and that will lead to higher prices, less service and will result in a disadvantage for a states economy and, even worse, the people. Just because it didn’t happen in your country yet, doesn’t mean it is not on its way. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 8:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/222 "2018-06-15T08:15:59Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > There is this huge image about how a few multinational companies actually own hundreds of brands, creating the illusion of competition. > > I gotta look for it. ![10%2BMega-Corporations](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/0/9/09ff897cbd8c5f6550ba104b942fde56c7e5f31a.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 8:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/223 "2018-06-15T08:25:34Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > I especially like how people believe that “words do harm”, but “suicide ganking is okay” … > … while being completely incapable of thinking any deeper than that. Because these are essentially two different things. If you combine suicide ganking with rubbing it in, hoping to make the other feel stupid/bad/hateful/powerless, that’s a different thing and certainly not limited to ganking. Anyone who can figure out any way to blow up another persons ship in space is using the game in a good way - my opinion. Anyone who uses this to verbally abuse others (beyond a reasonably friendly “fck you”) is unhealthy for the game. I haven’t witnessed that many ganks yet, but from what I remember the gankers were normally rather silent. The ganked on the other hand seem very likely to flip out, post real life threats, go deep into homophobialand and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 8:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/224 "2018-06-15T08:31:39Z")
> [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > The free market and capitalism _always_ end the same, if given enough time. In monopolies / duopolies. Squeezing as much profit out of the population as is possible, with no regard for the population at all. You are generalizing something you can’t generalize. There are multiple examples where the free market works perfectly well. Also free market does not mean everyone can just do whatever the hell he likes. Regulation does not make a market non-free it is there to actually force it to get those processes workbg again against monopolizing tendencies and resource limitations that would destroy the free market. > [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > Just look at Google and Amazon, they do that all the time despite anti-trust laws being in place. Just imagine if those laws wouldn’t exist. Technology companies are a big problem and completely underregulated. Software and internet services have a tendency to a lock-in which ends in a quasi-monopoly. In the case of software this is getting better with open source and free software in some cases, but for services like google search this is a serious issue which should be addressed. > [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > Look at US healthcare, the most expensive worldwide by several orders of magnitude. _That_ is the free market and capitalism at work. But isn’t actually the farma the problem here who have monopolies with their patents and can dictate the price for drugs so the free market doesnt work again. Other than that I don’t know enough about the us healthcare system to comment. > [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > Be realistic. This perfect free market you’re dreaming about, where all the players are playing nice with their competition, doesn’t exist. A free / capitalist market is serving only corporations and the rich at the expense of everyone else. If I modify that a bit to unregulated market, then I agree. We should stop looking at those things only black and white. Capitalism where it is working correctly is amazing and produces wealth. Where it is not working it needs to be regulated harder so it is working again. The illusion some have is that a free market without regulation just works. It does not and you already showed some examples. But that doesn’t mean capitalism as a whole is doomed, we just have to stop listening to the whole bs the extreme left and right are telling us with their idealistic dogmas and look at the real problems and solve them. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 8:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/225 "2018-06-15T08:31:56Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > I haven’t witnessed that many ganks yet, but from what I remember the gankers were normally rather silent. The ganked on the other hand seem very likely to flip out, post real life threats, go deep into homophobialand and all that. Gankers are also very vocal every now and then and throwing cucks and other colorful language at gank targets or people trying to help the gank target. Local chat can be very “entertaining” (if you like that sort of thing) and gankers respond very aggressively when you don’t fall for their vocal bait. > [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > There are multiple examples where the free market works perfectly well. For example? The aircraft industry certainly not (boeing even tries to get rid of Airbus at the moment by claiming state subsidies that helped Airbus in the early days to break Boeing’s monopoly were illegal). Food and farming industry neither. Telecom industry neither. Obscure examples like sun glasses or glasses neither. Pharma industry neither. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 8:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/226 "2018-06-15T08:37:04Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Gankers are also very vocal every now and then and throwing cucks and other colorful language at gank targets or people trying to help the gank target. Local chat can be very “entertaining” (if you like that sort of thing) and gankers respond very aggressively when you don’t fall for their vocal bait. Fair enough. I really didn’t witness that many ganks yet, so I probably shouldn’t have taken my few memories as a valid example. @Solstice_Projekt saw it as a contradiction to be against intentionally hurting people with words, while at the same time ganking them. So while, gankers as you say are probably no better or worse than their victims, the act of ganking is something that all participants agreed upon beforehand, by undocking and playing the game. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 8:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/227 "2018-06-15T08:37:56Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > Also free market does not mean everyone can just do whatever the hell he likes. Regulation does not make a market non-free it is there to actually force it to get those processes workbg again against monopolizing tendencies and resource limitations that would destroy the free market. A free market is by definition a market free of any and all regulation and government influences. That includes tariffs on imported goods. Put regulation or tariffs on it and you no longer have a free market, you have a regulated market. The only reason the US didn’t already implode on itself is exactly because they have a regulated market, not a free one. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 8:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/228 "2018-06-15T08:41:03Z")
So, Salvos, where have you been? I was thinking you might simply be on a vacation as most people do around this time of year on the Northern Hemisphere. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 8:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/229 "2018-06-15T08:44:53Z")
14 day forum suspension for a post. I did not contest it, cos cba. Spent it working on my sculpures by the marina, sipping beer and getting a great tan. Dunno where Teckos is, but also miss him, despite our disagreements. PS: 90% of you should flag yourself for off-topic, if your posts arent about Teckos or me. And no, thats not a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 8:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450/230 "2018-06-15T08:48:28Z")
They are different on the surface, but they are the same when you look deeper. From the perspective of the one who got “harmed” it is essentially the same thing. As evidenced by people on the forums, there is no effective difference between having your feelings harmed by words or having your feelings harmed by being suicide ganked. The outcome is exactly the same. Actions are being taken which lead to other people’s feelings being hurt. It does not matter if the ganker rubs it in post facto, because what matters is that people’s feelings are already hurt by being ganked. People who declare that “words do harm” are wrong. Words do not do harm. Sure, there are people who have actual mental issues, who need professional help and also deserve it, but when all of society starts believing that words do harm **in a general sense, because of a minority of people** then that will end in language being policed due to the fact that **potentially everything said could potentially be “harmful” to anyone**. From the perspective of the emotional immature, general person, there is no actual difference between being ganked and being called a fat, ugly bastard. The outcome is the same thing, a strong emotional reaction. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/have-you-seen-salvos-or-teckos/82450.md?page=12)