# Heads up that INIT are using bait-cyno ventures with multiple scrams **URL:** \ **Category:** Warfare & Tactics\ **Created:** [April 9, 2026, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/heads-up-that-init-are-using-bait-cyno-ventures-with-multiple-scrams/509591 "2026-04-09T13:29:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 12:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/heads-up-that-init-are-using-bait-cyno-ventures-with-multiple-scrams/509591/21 "2026-04-10T12:35:20Z")
> [@Carlos\_Warren](#): > > Yeah for sure, you will catch people and fitting multiple scrams on unlikely ships is allowed and so that’s cool. I just thought it’s kinda scraping the barrel in terms of engaging gameplay, Well, it worked didn’t it? Clearly it wasn’t scraping the bottom of the barrel. ---
**Author:** ![Namdor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/namdor/32/396179_2.png) [@Namdor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Namdor)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 4:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/heads-up-that-init-are-using-bait-cyno-ventures-with-multiple-scrams/509591/22 "2026-04-10T16:35:32Z")
> [@Carlos\_Warren](#): > > Javelin lets me hit out to 46km, although with the WCS fitted I can only target out to 36km but still that’s outside the range of anything a Venture can do to scram me. Looks like I’ve found my answer! It seems like you basically just attack ventures, so fitting HAMs instead of RLMLs is pretty braindead. It’s not like you’re going to win a fight at your weightclass in that utterly clown-shoes fit, so HAMs are pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/death_rex/32/494171_2.png) [@Death\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Death_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/heads-up-that-init-are-using-bait-cyno-ventures-with-multiple-scrams/509591/23 "2026-04-10T17:28:18Z")
Guy who shoots cyno vigil ships has no right to talk about lows. ---
**Author:** ![Carlos\_Warren](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/carlos_warren/32/375535_2.png) [@Carlos\_Warren](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Carlos_Warren)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/heads-up-that-init-are-using-bait-cyno-ventures-with-multiple-scrams/509591/24 "2026-04-10T17:54:02Z")
I go after barges and Ishtars as well, so having HAM’s for those targets makes sense. Would you recommend a different fit? I am basically looking for something that can go in, deal max damage in a short amount of time to a ratter/mining barge and get out ideally before the standing fleet can respond. We’re talking about 30 seconds really, before they arrive on grid. ---
**Author:** ![Namdor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/namdor/32/396179_2.png) [@Namdor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Namdor)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 6:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/heads-up-that-init-are-using-bait-cyno-ventures-with-multiple-scrams/509591/25 "2026-04-10T18:32:26Z")
You may go after those sometimes but I think if you’re realistic about what you’re typically killing, it’s ventures and deployables, and RLML will probably do more than 4x the applied DPS your HAMs are doing against a Venture. That aside, even factoring reload, RLML applied DPS rivals HAMs against most of what you’re shooting at, including a typical ratting Ishtar, and is WAY better if you’re not factoring in a reload (which, if you only have 30 seconds on grid, you won’t be there long enough to reload). Barges, yeah, the HAMs would probably be preferable. Some other thoughts: If you’re going to use HAMs, you generally shouldn’t be loading rage against anything smaller than a BC. It can be fine against cruisers with dual web. You would be better off with faction ammo Vs. almost everything you shoot at. Without additional tank, those CDFEs are a waste of precious rig slots imo. Nets you a whole ~3000 omni EHP. Unless you find yourself frequently escaping in deep hull, do something else with them (either DPS or application or move inertia to rigs and fit DPS in lows). Not sure I really understand the ECCM scripts; are those meant for anti-probe or ec-300s? Scan res seems like it would make more sense. I would say to get rid of the WCS but I’m assuming you are married to it. ---
**Author:** ![Carlos\_Warren](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/carlos_warren/32/375535_2.png) [@Carlos\_Warren](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Carlos_Warren)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 9:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/heads-up-that-init-are-using-bait-cyno-ventures-with-multiple-scrams/509591/26 "2026-04-10T21:11:17Z")
> You may go after those sometimes but I think if you’re realistic about what you’re typically killing, it’s ventures and deployables, and RLML will probably do more than 4x the applied DPS your HAMs are doing against a Venture. Yeah. Cloaky camping isn’t what it used to be, people are ratting in carriers and battleships, both of which my t3c can’t really engage. I liked the old days when everyone was ratting in VNI’s, much easier to attack. > That aside, even factoring reload, RLML applied DPS rivals HAMs against most of what you’re shooting at, including a typical ratting Ishtar, and is WAY better if you’re not factoring in a reload (which, if you only have 30 seconds on grid, you won’t be there long enough to reload). Barges, yeah, the HAMs would probably be preferable. Back when Horde lived in Fade, I did an actual study with a stopwatch at my desk, measuring average response times and I lost the spreadsheet when my old SSD died but I think the shortest response time was like 24 seconds from the moment I decloaked until standing arrived on grid. So I like to give myself a maximum of 30 seconds at which point I disengage, and flee, even if I haven’t killed the target. My play style is risk averse, prioritizing surviving to fight another die, above getting a kill. > Not sure I really understand the ECCM scripts; are those meant for anti-probe or ec-300s? Scan res seems like it would make more sense. There’s a player in J5A who seems to be an expert in scanning me down, even when I’m not decloaked for long. I have those two ECCM’s so I can run them when I’m decloaked and refitting at my mobile depot, and it will be harder to scan me down. I’m also using a Yurt mobile depot which is harder to scan than the other ones. > I would say to get rid of the WCS but I’m assuming you are married to it. Not completely. I use it like 50% of the time? I always like the option of being able to disengage and retreat if I can’t win a fight. Although if INIT are now fitting multiple scrams, and a WCS isn’t going to work regardless, might as well substitute it for something else. ---
**Author:** ![Namdor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/namdor/32/396179_2.png) [@Namdor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Namdor)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/heads-up-that-init-are-using-bait-cyno-ventures-with-multiple-scrams/509591/27 "2026-04-10T21:48:11Z")
> [@Carlos\_Warren](#): > > I think the shortest response time was like 24 seconds from the moment I decloaked until standing arrived on grid. So I like to give myself a maximum of 30 seconds at which point I disengage, and flee, even if I haven’t killed the target. Basically zero reason to use HAMs, then. If you’re just doing a drive-by, use an uzi. You will be far better off with rapid lights, especially if you drop the WCS and put some damage in your lows or rigs. ---
**Author:** ![Wachutu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wachutu/32/410262_2.png) [@Wachutu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wachutu)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 5:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/heads-up-that-init-are-using-bait-cyno-ventures-with-multiple-scrams/509591/28 "2026-04-11T05:03:00Z")
Take the L. ---
**Author:** ![Jera\_Var](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jera_var/32/487287_2.png) [@Jera\_Var](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jera_Var)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 7:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/heads-up-that-init-are-using-bait-cyno-ventures-with-multiple-scrams/509591/29 "2026-04-11T07:40:39Z")
What do you mean it’s “sad” to fit a venture with 2 scrams? You’re like those whiny FPS players who say “you’re so trash bro, I bet you couldn’t kill me over and over if you let me determine what you use and how you play, I’m actually good at this game even though I keep dying” (bangs mouse on desk for the 20th time today). Just chill and have fun dude. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/heads-up-that-init-are-using-bait-cyno-ventures-with-multiple-scrams/509591/30 "2026-04-11T11:30:47Z")
When you can kill a ratting vni in a taranis it gets old pretty fast tbvh. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/heads-up-that-init-are-using-bait-cyno-ventures-with-multiple-scrams/509591/31 "2026-04-11T11:34:48Z")
> [@Carlos\_Warren](#): > > Yeah. Cloaky camping isn’t what it used to be, people are ratting in carriers and battleships, both of which my t3c can’t really engage. I liked the old days when everyone was ratting in VNI’s, much easier to attack. Why is this a problem? If you see someone ratting in a carrier, tell a nearby big group where that person is. You don’t get the kill, but you get the win for orchestrating that carrier’s demise. ---
**Author:** ![Eaglefeather](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eaglefeather/32/495791_2.png) [@Eaglefeather](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eaglefeather)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2026, 3:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/heads-up-that-init-are-using-bait-cyno-ventures-with-multiple-scrams/509591/32 "2026-04-15T03:27:10Z")
They scraped the bottom of the barrel and found you. Not a glowing testimony, for sure. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2026, 3:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/heads-up-that-init-are-using-bait-cyno-ventures-with-multiple-scrams/509591/33 "2026-07-14T03:27:38Z")
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