# Hey, CCP. i know what your doing and i dont think its going to work **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 1, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434 "2021-04-01T14:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 4:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/227 "2021-04-07T16:25:27Z")
I can’t believe that nobody has noticed that PvE ships are not good at PvP in the 18 years Eve has been running. /s ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/228 "2021-04-07T16:30:39Z")
There are very expensive PvP hulls and fits by the way, that give significant advantage but apart from that I think you pretty much nailed it. Though I guess many of them were pretend not to understand it because players who do PvE are there to be their prey and they have to like it or they do not get Eve. One reason to play was to operate in spite of these players as part of the game, it is why I played but I saw that it got easier and easier for them despite their comments that they are always suffering nerfs. One such example was changing the warp speed, that meant that you were more likely to be caught, if they made the effort of course. If the balance is like what happened to mining barges and exhumers after the ROF penalty on destroyers was removed then this is one big nail about to be hammered home on Eve. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 4:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/229 "2021-04-07T16:33:50Z")
For PvE and PvP the main rules are the same. It all comes from ancient chinese Sun Tzu book, The Art of War. > “ **If you know the enemy and know yourself** , **you need not fear the result of a hundred battles**. **If you know yourself** but **not** the **enemy** , for every victory gained **you will** also suffer a defeat. **If you know** neither the **enemy** nor **yourself** , **you will** succumb in every **battle**.” ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/230 "2021-04-07T16:34:16Z")
put a web a scram some neuts boom your pve ship will destroy a lot of pvp ■■■■ because of the nature of pvp , ships are fitted in a more generalist way and in fact cannot sustain prolonged damage most pvp ships also have poor capacitor utilization time , some have only a couple of minutes any neut pression is enough to make them drop point and in some cases stop shooting the application problem is resolved by the range control triad , scram to turn mwd off , web to make the ship even slower ,plus some kind of prop module ---
**Author:** ![Hug\_Motsu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hug_motsu/32/264439_2.png) [@Hug\_Motsu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hug_Motsu)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/231 "2021-04-07T16:42:49Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > For PvE and PvP the main rules are the same. It all comes from ancient chinese Sun Tzu book, The Art of War. its kinda hard to “know” 26 000 online players.. so i guess i will always suffer a ship loss for every npc kill? .. and that brings us back to topic; that it suspect it will not be “more fun” for a pve-player to be doing pve, with the increase to investment to be able to kill npc’s. > [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > put a web a scram some neuts boom your pve ship will destroy a lot of pvp ■■■■ > because of the nature of pvp , ships are fitted in a more generalist way and in fact cannot sustain prolonged damage and voila, my PvE ship is now a PVP ship.. I mean I appreciate the info and that you are trying to help me out.. but i still stand by my assessments that it’s a general bad game development, for all. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/232 "2021-04-07T16:49:08Z")
> [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > and voila, my PvE ship is now a PVP ship… > I mean I appreciate the info and that you are trying to help me out… but i still stand by my assessments that it’s a general bad game development, for all. you are kinda right except for the fact you are talking about 2 bil +++ ships , most pvp ships use a lot of utility modules and are cheaper , putting neuts on the top slots utility modules render a battleship virtually immune to smaller ships, for example , the dude is in a t3 cruiser , you will melt him , the only thing a pvp may have over you is DPS but only for a short time period i know this will not work in every situation but prophylactic fitting can save you ---
**Author:** ![Xanthellus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xanthellus/32/253691_2.png) [@Xanthellus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xanthellus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 4:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/233 "2021-04-07T16:57:25Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > put a web a scram some neuts boom your pve ship will destroy a lot of pvp ■■■■ Sure, but only if PvP ships need to fit mining lasers in case some emergency mining needs to happen to avoid shiploss. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/234 "2021-04-07T16:58:10Z")
> [@Xanthellus](#): > > Sure, but only if PvP ships need to fit mining lasers in case some emergency mining needs to happen to avoid shiploss. yah but he was talking about 3 bil ships not mining barges ---
**Author:** ![Xanthellus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xanthellus/32/253691_2.png) [@Xanthellus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xanthellus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/235 "2021-04-07T16:59:31Z")
Not the point, your “solution” is making a pve ship far less suitable for its job, then I’m sure you’re ok with PvP ships having to do the same, right? ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/236 "2021-04-07T16:59:59Z")
> [@Xanthellus](#): > > far less suitable for its job This is a gross exaggeration. PvE ships do not need to be optimized for maximum isk/hr. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/237 "2021-04-07T17:02:22Z")
> [@Xanthellus](#): > > Not the point, your “solution” is making a pve ship far less suitable for its job, then I’m sure you’re ok with PvP ships having to do the same, right? im just saying is foolish to don’t fit a pair of neuts in a battleship if you can, a lot of ships have empty slots that can be fitted in a prophylactic way or maybe reducing a single tank module for a web etc ---
**Author:** ![Hug\_Motsu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hug_motsu/32/264439_2.png) [@Hug\_Motsu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hug_Motsu)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/238 "2021-04-07T17:02:23Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > you are kinda right except for the fact you are talking about 2 bil +++ ships , well… i dont think +2bil BS are enganged by a solo frigate or t3c, it will amost always be by a gank squad that has 2nd,3de,4th point? yes, pve ships can be saved from some sitatuons, by what you are suggesting… _But as is today, its not often, and for the future - with the changes, i suspect it will be even less likley to come upon a “saveble situation” as a juicy targets attrackts more people, and the target is only getting juicier by the minute_ My experiences is however that these “saveble” situations are so infrequent and far apart, that i would be getting more extra isk with a full pve fit, than i would generate with a half pvp/pve fit. i would simply put, be losing more isk by having a “pvp”-fit and possible saving the ship. **Becouse, the ship is not really savable that often.** > [@Xeux](#): > > This is a gross exaggeration. PvE ships do not need to be optimized for maximum isk/hr. so yeah… pve ships are by its nature flown and “needs” to be optimized for pve. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/239 "2021-04-07T17:06:22Z")
> [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > Becouse, the ship is not really savable that often. no pvp or pve ship will survive to a gank most of the time you can only dscam and run in that case ---
**Author:** ![Xanthellus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xanthellus/32/253691_2.png) [@Xanthellus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xanthellus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 5:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/240 "2021-04-07T17:07:04Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > im just saying is foolish to don’t fit a pair of neuts in a battleship if you can, a lot of ships have empty slots that can be fitted in a prophylactic way > or maybe reducing a single tank module for a web etc Hahaha no, most PVE BS don’t have magical free high slots or any free slots for that matter. Two posts, both full of nonsense. Do tell what your actual contribution is to this forum? ---
**Author:** ![Xanthellus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xanthellus/32/253691_2.png) [@Xanthellus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xanthellus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/241 "2021-04-07T17:08:34Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > PvE ships do not need to be optimized for maximum isk/hr. Feel free to post several examples for a PVE BS with scram, web and neuts that still “maximises isk/h”. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/242 "2021-04-07T17:08:53Z")
> [@Xanthellus](#): > > Hahaha no, most PVE BS don’t have magical free high slots or any free slots for that matter. > > Two posts, both full of nonsense. Do tell what your actual contribution is to this forum? only t1 bs don’t have free hs example … my rating nightmare in the old days had a pair of neuts for no other purpose than avoiding pvp hunters , it can save you ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/243 "2021-04-07T17:11:40Z")
Perhaps you don’t understand what I wrote. I wrote: PvE ships DO NOT need to be optimized for maximum isk/hr. ---
**Author:** ![Xanthellus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xanthellus/32/253691_2.png) [@Xanthellus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xanthellus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/244 "2021-04-07T17:12:40Z")
ok, show me a fit that uses scram, web and neuts and I’ll tell you how it would do better for pve. I’m sure you can list _some_, right? Go for it. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/245 "2021-04-07T17:13:31Z")
If you people really enjoy PvE so much, then why do you care about efficiency? ---
**Author:** ![Xanthellus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xanthellus/32/253691_2.png) [@Xanthellus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xanthellus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/246 "2021-04-07T17:14:47Z")
So you’re avoiding showing proof of your statements, even when asked twice. Thank you for proving my point on how meaningless your statements are. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434.md?page=11) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434.md?page=13)