# Hey, CCP. i know what your doing and i dont think its going to work **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 1, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434 "2021-04-01T14:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/21 "2021-04-01T16:04:56Z")
> [@Algathas](#): > > If CCP just made the game completely free with buying sp, initially their income would crash through the floor as all the vets that have plenty of sp whom have been buoying up their income stopped paying. So they have to keep those people paying or increase the other income streams so that loss doesn’t matter. Hence the omega vs limited alpha skills. Can tax the SP by having skills that aren’t being used decay. And/or add account maintenance fees that when you don’t log in and play/pay for a long time, your stuff is deleted. ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/22 "2021-04-01T16:07:08Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Can tax the SP by having skills that aren’t being used decay. And/or add account maintenance fees that when you don’t log in and play/pay for a long time, your stuff is deleted. True but the psychological aspect is there and even if the result is the same monetarily, many people would view the decay or maintenance fee as oppressive. ---
**Author:** ![Hug\_Motsu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hug_motsu/32/264439_2.png) [@Hug\_Motsu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hug_Motsu)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/23 "2021-04-01T17:11:08Z")
> [@Algathas](#): > > Do the math on what a subscription costs and then the sp per month for perfect implant/remap. > > CCP is never going to make it cheaper to not subscribe. Especially when it’s more convenient to just buy sp. The price $ per sp will always be higher with the most instant gratification. Well, i think, for obvious reasons, the vast majority like the current system of putting in the subscription and/or plex to gain skills points **over time** , _and to an unknown extent, to gain isk to trade for skills and toys._ You know people love to invest their time to “build”, that’s the whole reason why some games are so addictive. But new players also need a carrot, something that puts the hook in them. So, the “expert systems” might be a good hook, and I think its a good “trial” for seasoned vets aswell. But i dont agree with the pricing of it, for me, it quite expensive. _I would love to be able to buy expert system for plex/isk to try things out._ But CCP is trying to ninja flex the ecosystem of EVE (_for false flagged reasons_) into a bigger isk sink. At the very end of the isk-sink spectrum, we can conclude that there is a “pay2play” fee -alongside the current “plex2play” (and this is why it feels schitzo!) _but before that very point is reached, we will have an ecosystem that is transforming more and more into a “pay2win”._ **I advocate “more bang for the buck”** thus i advocate; industrial to be “cheaper” in amount and in isk of material and availability. a market without an isk sink (this sink protects and serve only the space-rich… that can afford to “buy out the market”… at the cost of everyone else) **a smaller Eve-universe by means of game mechanics** ex. such as npc-jump bridges in high/low and further reach/cheaper cost of the jump bridges in low. _(i find that a little travel time is needed for MMO’s but… the terms ‘little’ is underlined… have ccp asked themself why the ‘25-pilot yeet filaments’ is considered to be fun?)_ All in all… the current state of the game, eve cannot sustain itself… even less, “give ccp money to be able to do stuff ingame” … is kinda pointless until there is a steady and regular stream of content in the whole universe, i mean… What i’ve seen, the last couple of “events” have been targeted to a specific region: “spend 10hrs to travel across the universe, get ganked by this spectrumkid and his 30 alts… re-ship, do this thing … gain 5000 sp!!!” … CCPLS. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/24 "2021-04-01T17:12:44Z")
Nothing has changed, you can’t buy meaningful success with IRL cash in EvE. If you shortcut, you either die clueless and lose your stuff or ruin your fun in the game and you quit. CCP’s fault is, though understandable, to suggest to new players, that it is feasible to shortcut. ---
**Author:** ![Hug\_Motsu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hug_motsu/32/264439_2.png) [@Hug\_Motsu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hug_Motsu)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/25 "2021-04-01T17:28:38Z")
Its not about shortcuts. What i mean by “pay2win”, is that someone with RL$ can sponsor and boost their learning curve by having an real edge. Someone who can buy their way into more ships. more frequently, also learns to fly it to perfection faster. in a pvp scenario, two pilots with equal minds and experience… They cancel each other out. The one who brought RL$ into the equation wins. thats the REAL and ugly truth about the “pay2win” that you can see in our society every day, its not at all about shortcuts in the sense your describing it. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/26 "2021-04-01T17:42:43Z")
The ingame currency is ISK. You can’t buy ships or implants with RL cash, only with ISK. The access to ISK is open to everybody, be it with PLEX or ingame “work”. The one may take longer than the other, which was the deal since PLEX was introduced. But that’s not “pay2win” because who wins a fight depends mostly on RL skills, including the decision whether or how to fight. ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/27 "2021-04-01T17:52:16Z")
> [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > The one who brought RL$ into the equation wins. Only if there were items that you could only get with real $ that were better than normal items and/or if they made it very extremely onerous to acquire items in game so that clearly most people would spend rl $ to get them instead of a ridiculous effort spent in game. The latter is of course a sliding scale. How do you make it tough enough to catch enough lazy people’s cash while keeping enough regular gamers happy and thinking it is not too tough. CCP seems to be sliding the gears towards making isk tougher, likely increasing the amount of people that say screw it and sell plex to get isk, while still people are willing to deal with the extra effort of the updates. ---
**Author:** ![Edmorte\_Fehrnah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/edmorte_fehrnah/32/251868_2.png) [@Edmorte\_Fehrnah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Edmorte_Fehrnah)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/28 "2021-04-01T17:53:42Z")
> [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > I would love to be able to buy expert system for plex/isk to try things out. Ok, before addressing all that was spoken this point is very curious. Why expert systems are money and not PLEX? CCP gave up on keeping PLEX meaninful, it’s just a conversion of money to digital money where the print machine is going on crazy. Economy dictates that this leads to inflation, since nothing is backed by PLEX other than few stuff and acc time, it’s safe to assume few very rich people are trying to keep the price and people are still looking for PLEX to get some sweet omega time. CCP should have made the expert systems to be obtained by PLEX, so the more stuff backed by PLEX the more intrinsic value attributed to it. But what they are doing is the opposite, the market is suffering the hit. CCP fked up the free marketing introducing an infinite unlimited amount of PLEX and not enough sink to it, now the consequences are becoming apparent, the stuff you guys are complaining are, in principle, side effects. It’s safe to assume the ship is sinking. It’s like a government accepting Bitcoin instead of their FIAT. It smells! ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 7:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/29 "2021-04-01T19:14:29Z")
![Screenshot_20210401_201327](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/0/9/a099fc400b545da860abee01338214bf24085d68.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Krimmins](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krimmins/32/374944_2.png) [@Krimmins](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Krimmins)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 3:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/30 "2021-04-02T03:23:35Z")
I think what we need here is just more bang for your buck. People should be rewarded for spending $, and penalized for not. There should be a quick and easy shortcut for every ship you want to fly, like 20 bucks for a HAC or 50 bucks for a FAX Machine. By doing this, CCP makes money, and we get more content. It’s a win-win! ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/31 "2021-04-02T05:56:46Z")
> [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > It’s quite clear that EVE is using a multipronged approach towards changing EVE into something that becomes more accessible the more $$$ you spend Was clear for years. At least for me. All the changes in mechanics, rebalances, new additions to game. They even admittted they have to think about monetization while doing anything. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 6:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/32 "2021-04-02T06:01:07Z")
> [@Krimmins](#): > > I think this is great! I would much rather spend 1 hour working IRL for 5 bucks to spend on ISK rather than playing for 5 hours to grind it. This is example of player who after CCP makes grind more prevailing in everything what you do in game, because everything is bought for ISK, is simply happy that he can spend more IRL bucks. > I think what we need here is just more bang for your buck. People should be rewarded for spending $, and penalized for not. Unfortunately you will have to spend the IRL bucks repeatedly, at least for now, before CCP makes Omega ships somehow invulnerable for cash. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 6:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/33 "2021-04-02T06:31:27Z")
> [@Krimmins](#): > > People should be rewarded for spending $, They are, with ISK they buy for their $ > [@Krimmins](#): > > and penalized for not. You know nothing Jon Snow. Negative motivation, penalty only drives people away over time. It’s unsustainable. In MMOs the proportion of paying customers to f2p players is roughly the same, there are studies on that. Number of whales is a function of your games population. You absolutely cannot punish players for not paying. The more people play your game, the more whales you have. Alpha clone state in this sense is a debatable option. The game is too big, too good, alpha is way too limited. As an alpha you are way more limited than an f2p player in other MMOs would be. ---
**Author:** ![Zyma\_TheZ](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zyma_thez/32/495589_2.png) [@Zyma\_TheZ](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zyma_TheZ)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 6:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/34 "2021-04-02T06:43:16Z")
Why pay to win schematic fails? Because at some point you understand that what makes you win or lose is only how strong “credit card warrior” you are. Skill, dedication, tactics, meta becomes secondary thing. At that point you notice it is same as “Electronic Arts” and you dump that game. ---
**Author:** ![Goe\_Rilla](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/goe_rilla/32/360069_2.png) [@Goe\_Rilla](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Goe_Rilla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 8:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/35 "2021-04-02T08:49:35Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Nothing has changed, you can’t buy meaningful success with IRL cash in EvE. If you shortcut, you either die clueless and lose your stuff or ruin your fun in the game and you quit. Pardon me, but I can very easily buy myself with RL $$$ into a HG Talisman abyssal shield buffer Dramiel and steamroll noobs all day long for zero effort. This applies to all levels of the game and doesn’t really require such extensive skills or knowledge about the game to pull off. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 9:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/36 "2021-04-02T09:03:36Z")
Go ahead, and show your killboard. Also your neut speed will vastly help you winning fights in the Dramiel. Your comment just proves my point nicely. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Goe\_Rilla](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/goe_rilla/32/360069_2.png) [@Goe\_Rilla](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Goe_Rilla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 9:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/37 "2021-04-02T09:06:19Z")
Yea, it’s proving I can just easily buy my way in and win. That said be it with ingame aquired ISK or RL $$, which is essentially the same thing as the lines between isk and $$ is already blurred. > **[Verlyn | Character](https://zkillboard.com/character/1668690256/)** > > Verlyn: 1,728 ships destroyed and 879 ships lost. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 9:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/38 "2021-04-02T09:17:58Z")
Is this you? I can’t see anything you won’t be able to pull with standard fits. The losses show no bling, but normal PvP fits. Also pods are safe in lowsec, so one time investment. Decent win/loss ratio. Where is the pay2win? ---
**Author:** ![Goe\_Rilla](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/goe_rilla/32/360069_2.png) [@Goe\_Rilla](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Goe_Rilla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 9:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/39 "2021-04-02T09:26:27Z")
Hey calm your tits down, I’m not saying standard fits don’t work, they sure do. They’re just a lot more unforgiving to use than what I paid good money to use to steamroll fights easily without breaking much of a sweat or having to reship … ie: win, which was the whole point. I can pay to have just that extra edge above standard fits to make fights more easily winnable. Pods are safe in lowsec until Hetoki or some other cloaky smartbomber shows up ^^ And yea, thats the real me :3 ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 9:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/40 "2021-04-02T09:40:26Z")
Until you get caught in the bling fit, now that all know your main Verlyn, and know you like bling. 😛 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434.md?page=3)