# Hey, CCP. i know what your doing and i dont think its going to work **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 1, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434 "2021-04-01T14:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Hug\_Motsu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hug_motsu/32/264439_2.png) [@Hug\_Motsu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hug_Motsu)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 3:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/81 "2021-04-04T15:59:03Z")
> [@Kylanti\_Hendar](#): > > I believe they want to get to the point where loss matters much more than it does at the moment. Think how much more exciting it would be to get a titan kill when only 5 die a year, rather than 300 in a day. > > Although I hope that the cost of the smaller t1 stuff does not rise any further. Yes, they want to get to the point where losing stuff is “exciting and means something” … **but** we long established that the pvp in this game is about having +1 in fleet, or having the upper hand in ways that aren’t really tied to individual pvp skills. so in reality. “the exciting part” is going to be “alot more grief about losing something”. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > P2W rewards low-skill players who suck at EVE and tries to make everyone equal in-game. It is communism, and stands in direct opposition to the capitalist principle that success is earned and failure is always an option. since it **pay** to win, this is capitalism. communism is what you suggest, that everyone is equal _regardless of their bank account_. communism is a political and economic system, it’s not “everyone is equally worthy, regardless of their IQ.” the latter is socialism. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/82 "2021-04-04T16:01:13Z")
> [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > since it **pay** to win, this is capitalism. Nope. Captialism is about in-game accomplishments being rewarded on their merits. Communism is the belief that even players who suck at EVE should be able to succeed and have equal SP as long as you can come up with an out of game reason (like having IRL cash) why they should be shielded from the consequences of their in-game failures. ---
**Author:** ![Hug\_Motsu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hug_motsu/32/264439_2.png) [@Hug\_Motsu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hug_Motsu)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/83 "2021-04-04T16:03:48Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Nope. Captialism is about in-game accomplishments being rewarded on their merits. im not gonna argue with someone who argue against a dictonary… but never the less… in-game accomplisments… like starting out in a catalyst, working their way up with drone boats… into a nidhogger… and then _poof_ gone. nerfbat incomingg… no ingame merits, as in a year, with current developments… all capital ships are redundant paper weights. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/84 "2021-04-04T16:04:55Z")
Successful players will adapt to this, just like successful capitalists IRL adapt to market changes and continue to be rich. Do you want a communist system where players who get their stuff nerfed are coddled and given free stuff to make up for their losses and make sure that everyone remains equal? ---
**Author:** ![Hug\_Motsu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hug_motsu/32/264439_2.png) [@Hug\_Motsu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hug_Motsu)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/85 "2021-04-04T16:07:09Z")
you should read up more on what communism and socialism is, and how they differerent. also fyi, the super rich players dont need to adapt, they ccp changed the system to protect and serve the super rich… with all the market changes and what not… so… yeah… ok. gl hf in space my communist friend. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/86 "2021-04-04T16:07:57Z")
> [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > you should read up more on what communism and socialism is, Bold words for someone who started off with “relax there comrade… the soviet union is strong with you…” when I suggested removing P2W mechanics. ---
**Author:** ![Kylanti\_Hendar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kylanti_hendar/32/385538_2.png) [@Kylanti\_Hendar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kylanti_Hendar)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/87 "2021-04-04T16:10:01Z")
> [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > Yes, they want to get to the point where losing stuff is “exciting and means something” … **but** we long established that the pvp in this game is about having +1 in fleet, or having the upper hand in ways that aren’t really tied to individual pvp skills. No. You believe that. I believe: 1. PvP skills are really important, at least in scale I commonly involved. 2. Having the upper hand in other ways - is a skill in itself. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 5:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/88 "2021-04-04T17:32:03Z")
eve pvp is great , i know people are entitled to have a opinion but those who say eve pvp is bad are wrong ==== joke joke don’t fixate on this part … btw of course there will be more carebears than pvpers , of course there will be more f1 monkeys than pirates , of course there will be more gate campers than hunters , people are cowardly , lazy , unskilled , the eazy ways is the more popular way but most of the time the hard way is more rewarding im not saying that all the player should do pvp , do what you want , the game is made to have fun a industrial is as valid as a pirate , a miner is as valid as a pirate but don’t come here saying eve pvp is this and that wen you don’t engage in it losing a barge is not a pvp expert certificate and as i said before i lost MUCH MUCH MUCH more than most of you , to ganks , to camps , 20 v 1, im on the run to have my 1000th solo kill ,my kills are mostly , FW fights , duels , and suspect baiting , i know people that have 2k, 3k, we exist , and we like our little niche metagame , don’t come here to tell lies about it edit: btw look at my wallet im poor AF, i spend all my money in ships to create free content i do it for fun but I’m so tired of resentment here in this forums , for having a hight risk , objectively good for the game style of play ![Captura de Tela 2021-04-04 às 14.48.43](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/0/a/7/0a76a21c59618645bedbc146a852eba6d36641e1.png) ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/89 "2021-04-04T21:51:09Z")
> [@Xanthellus](#): > > I have but this is an interesting subject so I’m actually checking the hidden replies, _just_ to see if there’s something of worth there. lmao You people don’t have any self-respect. No backbone whatsoever - your spines are like wet rags. How do you even sleep at night? When you look in the mirror today, remember this moment and think about how you don’t have even a shred of integrity. I swear, there’s something about the carebear play style that just attracts the _worst_ possible human beings. It seems to be like catnip for those with asocial, cowardly, and opportunistic-backstabbing tendencies. > [@Xeux](#): > > Capitalism vs communism for skill points? Really? This is far fetched even by Eve Forum standards. It’s not _that_ far-fetched, but the issue lies in most of these people never having read any of the associated works by the likes of Smith, Marx, and Engels. They _at best_ have a college freshman understanding of the concepts, such as “communism = everything is free yay!” and “capitalism = gotta pull on those bootstraps yo” plus whatever they’ve picked up from Reddit and their favorite network news commentator-slash-yelling-person. The actual concepts go far beyond these five-word distillations, and there’s actually quite a bit of overlap and reconciliation between the two systems (e.g. capitalism actually needs considerable elements of socialism to function or it will devolve into tribal anarchy - a strong central government is _required_ to handle such issues as externalities or people will do stuff like dump industrial waste into orphanages in the pursuit of an extra dollar). That said, Merin’s interpretation is by far the most accurate. Maybe just not detailed enough because Merin’s arguing with mouth-breathing Dunning-Krugers who say stuff like “you should read up more on what communism and socialism is” while not understanding that _artificially_ bridging a skill divide via external intervention (whether it’s a government mandate or dumping real money into a fake game doesn’t matter, and _who_ does it also doesn’t matter) is fairly indicative of a communism-leaning system. > [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > but most of the time the hard way is more rewarding It might be more rewarding emotionally, but not physically/financially. The reason why more people take the easier route is _exactly_ because it’s more rewarding physically/financially, e.g. camping gates will give you considerably more loot and kill mails than running around belts looking for ratters to kill. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/90 "2021-04-04T21:56:10Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > _artificially_ bridging a skill divide via external intervention (whether it’s a government mandate or dumping real money into a fake game doesn’t matter, and _who_ does it also doesn’t matter) is fairly indicative of a communism-leaning system. Id be fascinated to see how that is worked out, but this is most cetainly not the place to discuss politics. Socio Economics are apparently fine though for some reason vOv ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 11:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/91 "2021-04-04T23:17:01Z")
In capitalism we toil endlessly for the enrichment of the bourgeoisie. In communism we toil endlessly for the state. In Eve we can live free. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/92 "2021-04-04T23:31:45Z")
EVE is a theocracy, if anything. All that we do is done by the will of God (CCP), in a world that they’ve created for us. CCP giveth, and CCP taketh away. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 3:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/93 "2021-04-05T03:23:55Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I swear, there’s something about the carebear play style that just attracts the _worst_ possible human beings. It seems to be like catnip for those with asocial, cowardly, and opportunistic-backstabbing tendencies. I would argue the only trait where carebears and gankers generally differ is that one side is more introverted and another is more extraverted. Gankers are equally _asocial, cowardly, and opportunistic-backstabbing_ crowd as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 3:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/94 "2021-04-05T03:29:55Z")
But the roleplay of ganking is glorious. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 4:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/95 "2021-04-05T04:02:01Z")
Didn’t say it was bad. ) ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 4:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/96 "2021-04-05T04:19:27Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > Gankers are equally _asocial, cowardly, and opportunistic-backstabbing_ crowd as far as I’m concerned. at least they smile … a good smile can open every door ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 4:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/97 "2021-04-05T04:35:11Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > Gankers are equally _asocial, cowardly, and opportunistic-backstabbing_ crowd as far as I’m concerned. Disagree. Gankers avoid risk as a pragmatic decision about optimizing their strategies for playing a game, carebears avoid risk because they’re _terrified_ of loss and become genuinely upset if they lose something. And whenever someone is escalating beyond the bounds of the game to IRL death threats and such it always seems to be a carebear throwing a rage fit over people playing a game in a way they don’t like. Of course it’s also important to emphasize the difference between carebears and people who engage in PvE activities. Many stable and healthy people engage in PvE, but those people don’t tend to identify as carebears. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 4:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/98 "2021-04-05T04:35:19Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > I would argue the only trait where carebears and gankers generally differ is that one side is more introverted and another is more extraverted. Gankers are equally _asocial, cowardly, and opportunistic-backstabbing_ crowd as far as I’m concerned. Even if you were to make that argument against gankers specifically, ganking is just one of many different types of nonconsensual PvP found in the game. Furthermore, it makes no sense that players who play in groups would be asocial (asocial and introverted mean the same thing, by the way), or that players who accept and engage in nonconsensual PvP would be cowardly. It just sounds like you’re trying to get a shot in at the PvP/piracy crowd because “griefer = bad person IRL,” but your claims don’t have any actual merit in practice. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 5:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/99 "2021-04-05T05:41:56Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Gankers avoid risk as a pragmatic decision about optimizing their strategies for playing a game, carebears avoid risk because they’re _terrified_ of loss and become genuinely upset if they lose something. Carebears avoid risk as a pragmatic decision about optimizing their strategies for playing a game, gankers crave interacting with other people because they’re **terrified** of being alone and become genuinely upset if nobody notices them. We can play it all day ) ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/0/c/a0c3c4952c2d7f07beb8523b66aed683c65a958d.jpeg) ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/1/f/e1fdd7cf4f77b71400eb57cae417efed88be7803.png) @Merin_Ryskin @Destiny_Corrupted You guys. As long as CCP does not cater to one side only and does not destroy other’s playstyle it’s all fine. Shittalking is fundamental part of the game. From both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 5:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/100 "2021-04-05T05:49:40Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > gankers crave interacting with other people because they’re **terrified** of being alone and become genuinely upset if nobody notices them Sure, let’s go with that, which is still a considerably more favorable trait to have than cowardice and egoism. > [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/0/c/a0c3c4952c2d7f07beb8523b66aed683c65a958d.jpeg) > > image603×753 147 KB Intelligent people don’t actually think this way. They acknowledge the flaws inherent in themselves and the systems they are a part of. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434.md?page=6)