# Hey, CCP. i know what your doing and i dont think its going to work **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 1, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434 "2021-04-01T14:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 3:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/121 "2021-04-05T15:41:59Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > I don’t think the two are really the same. Id agree, sorry if my wording made it seem they were both synomymous. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/122 "2021-04-05T15:53:26Z")
> [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > secondly, no you are wrong, so is Merin. > [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > I admit I haven’t read up on communism/socialism/whatever-ism > [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > you dont have to read history books on governmental rule or social economics > [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > these facts are a completely useless subject ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/f/2/f2b43816200e9a8c72e577bd1b845b98fb8c96ee.jpeg) > [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > you do know the point of being a carebear is to **steer away from pvp**? > [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > what you are describing is not a carebear but the typical ganker who only **taking fights** they think they can win. Can’t make this ■■■■ up. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/7/3/a73380430da808e0d459752528ae1c8af120164b.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/123 "2021-04-05T17:05:52Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > People farming to pay for more farming are not having fun. No ■■■■! More authoritarian rhetoric. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Can you honestly say that you never _do_ anything with the ISK you generate? I was doing combat exploration in highsec. The numbers were roughly 8bil monthly income, 1.5bil/month set aside for Plex, lost 4-6 ships per year, so another 0.75bil/month went there. And that is it. Saved 40ish bil. Wanted to buy faction fort or save some more for AT ship or some rare shiny to put on the shelf. I do not generate ISK, I generate modules. I consume Plex and essentially sterilize ISK supply. Because chances are it stays as big wallet number and never even gets spent. Small part of it allows me to make lore trips, WH and null trips, fool around with ■■■■-fits, buy hundreds of corpses, collect ships and Skins (600+ I think). > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > The simple fact here is that carebears _don’t_ just avoid risk because they’ve made a pragmatic optimization choice. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Carebears would rather stay docked and make zero ISK than face the chance of loss, even if their net profit after deducting the losses would be significant. It literally is pragmatic optimization choice. I stopped playing because of holes Trigs left in highsec, because travel already took 80-90% of my play session and they added some more travel, made it more tedious. I optimized by playing something else. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > And carebears are the ones who take losses personally and escalate to IRL death threats, verbal abuse, etc, because to them it’s more than just decisions in a game. You sound surprised. Player killers issues existed since earliest MUDs. You want your victims to hug you or something? Here, for tenth time probably. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/1/f/e1fdd7cf4f77b71400eb57cae417efed88be7803.png) Notice goal and motivation columns. Notice how they are different for Killers, Achievers and Explorers. IRL threats are inexcusable but also are to be expected in a game where stakes are high, for the losing side mostly. HTFU, report, move on, adapt. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Hug\_Motsu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hug_motsu/32/264439_2.png) [@Hug\_Motsu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hug_Motsu)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/124 "2021-04-05T17:38:48Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > So then why are you trying to use those terms in a discussion? Do your basic research and maybe you’ll stop posting stupid things. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Can’t make this ■■■■ up. **Your response… … more bullying and avoid the debate topic at all cost??** **Explain how its capitalism to remove plex, skillinjectors, char transfers, new eden store etc etc …** you are the kind of people who thinks the loudest wins the argument… lord have mercy. instead of ridiculing yourself _while trying to ridicule me_… how about you actually read what I’m writing and tell me how I’m wrong? How about being a grownup? _your bullying tactics aka “debate rhetorics” do work in the real world, but meh, the only followers you get are dumb weak people. So how intellectual are you really to begin with? Why should I even bother to debate with someone who just wants to grief and troll?_ ps. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Farming to get ISK for PLEX is the endless cycle of menial grinding for the privilege of menial grinding next month, leading to boredom and quitting the game instead of spending in-game time having fun. this is.,… so stupid i didn’t even address it. **(more than to say that people like to “build”)** its not only authoritarian, its also really close-minded… and outragesly stupid. You can pretty much say anything in this sentence… > Why pvp just to do more pvp? > why play pc games just to play more pc games? > I mean really guys?! Why take a breath, just to take another breath!!! omg… its such a menial grind for oxygen ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/125 "2021-04-05T17:46:16Z")
> [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > Your response… … more bullying and avoid the debate topic at all cost?? The debate ended when you admitted that you had no background in or understanding of the topics being discussed, but still insisted that the opposing party was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Hug\_Motsu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hug_motsu/32/264439_2.png) [@Hug\_Motsu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hug_Motsu)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/126 "2021-04-05T17:51:07Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The debate ended when you admitted that you had no background in or understanding of the topics being discussed, but still insisted that the opposing party was wrong. i know you belive that, thats why you are pretty dumb. bullying people into submission, might have worked against you… but im stronger then you. **how about you explain yourself.** **please explain how its capitalism to remove the entire free market.** _is it possible that i know **enough** to be able to say: “i don’t know anything” wheres you don’t know ■■■■, so you believe you know it all?_ _is it perhaps possible that you are in fact the “mouth breeding Dunham-Krueger” here?_ ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/127 "2021-04-05T18:02:34Z")
> [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > bullying people into submission, might have worked against you… but im stronger then you. No one’s bullying you. You literally admitted that you didn’t have knowledge of the subject matter, and that you didn’t even _care_ about it. ---
**Author:** ![Hug\_Motsu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hug_motsu/32/264439_2.png) [@Hug\_Motsu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hug_Motsu)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/128 "2021-04-05T18:07:06Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > No one’s bullying you. You literally admitted that you didn’t have knowledge of the subject matter, and that you didn’t even _care_ about it. words… words indeed. but im sorry. you get an F as you failed to read the assignment. **EXPLAIN HOW REMOVING THE FREE MARKET IS CAPITALISM.** ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/129 "2021-04-05T18:09:08Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/e/a/eae60a9df89892c75084699e10f91b245b11ab70.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Hug\_Motsu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hug_motsu/32/264439_2.png) [@Hug\_Motsu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hug_Motsu)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/130 "2021-04-05T18:10:42Z")
That’s what I thought. You can’t explain it. because it’s a ■■■■■■■■ statement, made by you and merin to begin with. thus the “little” I know about capitalism and communism, is more than what you know. so now STFU and let the grownups talk. “no actually… removing the free market is actually capitalism” YES clearly, whatever ■■■■■■■ “advanced” education you got in social/political/economic education was totally worth your time, money, and effort. Thank good your reading above the “freshmen introduction class” or whatever the ■■■■ you’re implied reading level is at. ---
**Author:** ![Mitsuko\_Chan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitsuko_chan/32/385970_2.png) [@Mitsuko\_Chan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitsuko_Chan)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 9:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/131 "2021-04-05T21:42:01Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > carebears lead the way in terms of opportunism. Sadly I’ve noticed this too, carebear ‘allies’ are more likely to loot wrecks and not share the spoils despite the group effort to kill the target(s). Seems to be more honour and comraderie between pirate groups (in my experience). I mainly just work on my own now as most players I’ve played with over the years have since moved on and trust is a scarce commodity. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 9:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/132 "2021-04-05T21:46:22Z")
> [@Mitsuko\_Chan](#): > > I mainly just work on my own now as most players I’ve played with over the years have since moved on and trust is a scarce commodity. Come over to the dark side. 😈 Which, to be fair, is not that dark at all. Mostly we just shoot stuff and drink and tell jokes over voice comms. But boy do I have some stories to tell from what I’ve heard in carebear voice chats… ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 9:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/133 "2021-04-05T21:49:06Z")
If the market was truly free, and not bent to the will of those with the most Capital, then it wouldnt be Capitalist, would it? ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 9:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/134 "2021-04-05T21:57:01Z")
> [@Mitsuko\_Chan](#): > > trust is a scarce commodity. The point is, join or work with groups where “abstract” trust isn’t mandatory. Means where people would kill their own fun and profit on betrayal. PvP focused groups outside highsec tend to work like that. If you play foul in a PvP fleet, the rest would just kick and kill you. Not that easy in highsec, where then being selfish is often the best option … ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 2:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/135 "2021-04-06T02:09:05Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > The numbers were roughly 8bil monthly income, 1.5bil/month set aside for Plex So you’re saying that your goals all took ~25% longer to achieve because you were spending a significant part of your income on paying to keep playing instead of in-game activities. And let’s not ignore the fact that you’re probably an outlier with those numbers. I’ve seen far more people making 1.6 billion per month and spending 1.5 billion of it on PLEX so they can pay to do it again next month, meanwhile complaining that they have no ISK and can never do anything but farm. It’s a miserable existence that removes all fun from the game and replaces it with a desperate grind to reach your PLEX target before you run out of time for the month. > It literally is pragmatic optimization choice. In what world is it a “pragmatic optimization choice” to prefer to make zero ISK than make 100 million ISK and then lose 50 million of it. Zero ISK vs. 50 million ISK, how is this a rational choice? > You sound surprised. Player killers issues existed since earliest MUDs. You want your victims to hug you or something? Here, for tenth time probably. I’m not surprised, because after this long in EVE I understand the serious mental problems that certain carebears have. I do not expect expect hugs, I expect behavior to stay within the limits of what civilized adults playing a video game should be capable of. > IRL threats are inexcusable but also are to be expected in a game where stakes are high, for the losing side mostly. EVE is not a high-stakes game. It has no IRL consequences whatsoever, any losses are just meaningless pixels that will eventually disappear anyway when CCP shuts down the servers. The only reason IRL threats should be expected is the same reason that you should expect to hear 14 year olds screaming racial slurs if you join a random CoD game: some people are poorly behaved children with anger issues. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 2:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/136 "2021-04-06T02:11:02Z")
> [@Hug\_Motsu](#): > > You can’t explain it. We can explain it. We’re not going to bother explaining it to someone who admits that they don’t even know what capitalism, communism, and socialism are. It would be like trying to explain the math behind my job to a 5 year old who is still learning how to count. Well, almost. The 5 year old is probably better behaved than you, so that’s a point in their favor. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 5:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/137 "2021-04-06T05:27:03Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > instead of in-game activities. You still struggle to understand. PVE is my preferred in-game activity. The fun. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > And let’s not ignore the fact that you’re probably an outlier with those numbers. I’ve seen far more people making 1.6 billion per month and spending 1.5 billion of it on PLEX so they can pay to do it again next month, meanwhile complaining that they have no ISK and can never do anything but farm. It’s a miserable existence that removes all fun from the game and replaces it with a desperate grind to reach your PLEX target before you run out of time for the month. For the first 8 years I was sharing phat loot, fittings, ins-and-outs of highsec combat exploration sites in starter NPC corp chat. Sadly there were only half of dozen people like me, sharing stuff, teaching, swaying newbies out of Lvl3s and Venture mining, most of the time it’s dead silent though. Then I finally left for one man corp to save 10% tax. You are advocating to get rid of people who’re plexing? Do you expect them all to sub instead? Really? > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > In what world is it a “pragmatic optimization choice” to prefer to make zero ISK than make 100 million ISK and then lose 50 million of it. Zero ISK vs. 50 million ISK, how is this a rational choice? The choice is not as simple as that though. Losing PVP ship is not the same as losing PVE ship. I prefer making zero ISK not to lose 1.5 bil, which is already replaced of course, but still loss sets you back a week or more. Extra shopping time, extra travel time. Effort outweights fun. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > EVE is not a high-stakes game. You don’t understand PVE crowd, do you? Expensive mods, bling fits. Why people use those, how do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 6:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/138 "2021-04-06T06:06:23Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > You don’t understand PVE crowd, do you? Expensive mods, bling fits. Why people use those, how do you think? Because they’re greedy, and want to make money 5% faster? The issue isn’t that, anyway. It’s that these people feel entitled to not have to _lose_ their investments. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 7:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/139 "2021-04-06T07:02:12Z")
5% is tricky. 5% less DPS or speed and suddenly it takes 20-30% more time to finish a site and you start losing sites to competition. 5% weaker ship might cut 30-40% of your monthly profit. Do you admit though the stakes are higher for them? 5% better ship for 20x times the price which is 30% more efficient. Yet they field them. And you call them risk averse? And you despise and resent them. * * * There’s a great talk from Game Developers Conference [Board Game Design Day: Board Game Design and the Psychology of Loss Aversion](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_1YcCcBVfY). I’m sure CCP could use some **Psychology of Loss Aversion**. Tagging [@CSM](https://forums.eveonline.com/groups/csm) for attention. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 7:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434/140 "2021-04-06T07:06:58Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > And you call them risk averse? And you despise and resent them. They **are** risk averse. Their PvE risk is accounted for and nonexistent, because all of the content has been perfectly mapped out and documented already - all they have to do is follow a script. And the PvP risk is usually not considered because they aren’t _aware_ of it. Most people using multi-billion fits for mission-running are gank virgins, and the ones who aren’t (and still continue to play) perform research to mitigate this type of risk to the point where it’s a nonissue. There’s nothing wrong with being risk-averse anyway. The issue has always been that these people ask for the risk to be removed systemically, instead of working to mitigate it themselves. **That** is why they are resented. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hey-ccp-i-know-what-your-doing-and-i-dont-think-its-going-to-work/303434.md?page=8)