# High Sec and New Player Experience Are Tied - Make a change CCP **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 13, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922 "2021-01-13T16:28:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 9:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/195 "2021-01-20T09:59:55Z")
> [@Aristotelina\_Omaristos](#): > > The same goes for everyone. If you know what you are doing, you can usually avoid getting ganked. How does one calculate the loot fairy? If that’s not possible, how are gankers able to _exactly_ calculate risk vs. reward? As it is not possible to predict the loot fairy at all … … it is not possible for gankers to _exactly_ calculate risk vs. reward … … which means that he’s wrong. A farmer is perfectly capable of _exactly_ calculating his risk vs. reward by tanking his ship beyond what a site dishes out and he can be _perfectly_ safe from gankers by simply watching his back … … which means he’s projecting his carebear-perspective onto gankers. ---
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 10:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/196 "2021-01-20T10:04:19Z")
Have you tried Singularity? ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/197 "2021-01-20T11:55:30Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > The problem with ganking is that ganking is a core part of the game and that some players fail to understand that. I don’t know what type of Kool-Aid you’re drinking but your statement implies that CCP created ganking along with all the other core aspects of the game. Now CCP may like the fact that ganking happens in-game but it’s actually player created emergent gameplay due to how high sec game mechanics were coded. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/198 "2021-01-20T12:05:15Z")
Sure thing. Ill do whatever you feel it takes to make this happen. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/199 "2021-01-20T12:29:31Z")
> [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > For argument’s sake, can you name the PvE activities you were able to do before but can’t do now? Well, let’s see… I use to run High Sec DED 3/10 and 4/10 sites in a Tech 3 Strategic Cruiser… Can’t do that anymore. I use to hold escalations for up to 7 days so I could sell the bookmark to it… Can’t do that anymore. I use to scan down Ore Anomalies in High Sec space and sell those bookmarks to Mining Fleets… Can’t do that anymore. I use to go to different parts of High Sec space and mine various types of Ore for different types of minerals… Can’t do that anymore. How about accessing Level 5 Agents in High Sec and running their missions? How about player created specialized services such as creating corps and anchoring POS’s in High Sec? There’s probably more but that will do for starters. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 12:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/200 "2021-01-20T12:34:29Z")
> [@bluelysian](#): > > Around 2014 eve had more players and high sev was even more dangerous … making high sec safer chased many players away and they never come back and we never be able to catch these numbers again lol, pure rubbish… ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/201 "2021-01-20T12:36:04Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Kool-Aid Oh it’s the kool-aid insult, never had that one used against me before! My initial thought is to ignore you like the fool you make out of yourself. But anyway, let me respond to the substance of your post: > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > your statement implies that CCP created ganking along with all the other core aspects of the game. Yes indeed, my statement implied CCP created ganking because they _did_. When CCP creates mining lasers and mining rocks, do you call it ‘emergent gameplay’ when players start mining those rocks, or is mining in EVE intentionally created by CCP? Likewise, when CCP creates an environment where everyone can attack and kill others anywhere, do you call it ‘emergent gameplay’ when some players go and kill others, or is attacking other players anywhere intentionally created by CCP? It’s possible that we have a different idea of ‘emergent behavior’, but my impression is that it describes behavior that was not expected, like bumping ships to keep them out of warp. Now tell me, did CCP expect people to kill others in high sec when they made it possible to kill others in high sec? Yes? Intentionally created. No? Imergent behavior. (I expect Yes, but we’ll never know what CCP thought for sure. 😋) ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/202 "2021-01-20T12:39:39Z")
lol, thanks. Now I know you’re high. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/203 "2021-01-20T12:40:25Z")
To what do I owe this hostility? ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 12:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/204 "2021-01-20T12:51:30Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > To what do I owe this hostility? > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > My initial thought is to ignore you like the fool you make out of yourself. And you’re an even bigger fool, especially after seeing you post this: > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > When CCP creates mining lasers and mining rocks, do you call it ‘emergent gameplay’ when players start mining those rocks, or is mining in EVE intentionally created by CCP? By the way, when this game was first implemented, there was an issue of players killing others as they undocked and spawned in high sec space. CCP created Concord and then later when other players figured out how to tank Concord so they could continue destroying others in high sec with immunity, CCP buffed Concord and then labeled any action that negates retribution from Concord is an exploit and is subject to ban. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/205 "2021-01-20T12:53:53Z")
If CCP didn’t want players to fight eachother they would have made it impossible to fight one another. Not create an NPC faction to punish players after the fight. The only thing that was apparently unexpected for CCP was the amount of ganks happening, not the idea of ganks itself. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 1:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/206 "2021-01-20T13:08:11Z")
I never said CCP didn’t want any fighting to happen in high sec space. What do you think WarDecs are for? Oh and Duels too. Suicide ganking was emergent gameplay by players CCP actually wants players to go to low and null sec and fight. That’s their big selling point for Eve. If CCP wanted players to Suicide Gank in High Sec space, they’d be pushing that aspect in their advertisements. Anyway, you can believe what you want. I’m done… ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 2:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/207 "2021-01-20T14:04:26Z")
Point you missing is rules rights and reality of this game…discussing what CCP wants is simply nit more than assumptions since we are not CCP. high sec suicide ganking is allowed and legid game style and they have equal rights to play the game the way they wish as much as the miners or mission runners or others . You dont have to love or like it. But you have to respect it . You accept play this game by its rules and all in package There is some suicide gankers i reeally like them ( particulair players) There is some suicide gankers i dont like them and i have zero respect to them ( particulair players again due to they step up EULA rules and harrasment they applied was beyond regulations and unacceptable as well as some other pilots from different play styles who step up on eula and others rights ) Suicide ganking is not my play style … i do totally different stuff in eve … I do respect the concept and other play styles of the pilots…icl . Suicide ganking too… And i m a pilot who had suicide ganked by others in the past too Seperate those things … first of all … and be more aware… Carebear is a mindset … its a attitude… not a playstyle… There is lot of vetereans here wrote pages to help you to gain some understanding … please use it I dont even understand what is the subject here ? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/208 "2021-01-20T15:04:20Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Anyway, you can believe what you want. I’m done… And you’re welcome to believe what _you_ want too. By the way, please don’t start with insults next time if you want to have a normal discussion, because… > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > I don’t know what type of Kool-Aid you’re drinking but your statement implies… … isn’t a good start of any discission. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/209 "2021-01-20T15:21:52Z")
Oh boo hoo, next time don’t post BS saying CCP created Suicide Ganking… ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/210 "2021-01-20T15:22:14Z")
You’re hopeless. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/211 "2021-01-20T15:32:05Z")
> [@bluelysian](#): > > Point you missing is rules rights and reality of this game…discussing what CCP wants is simply nit more than assumptions since we are not CCP. > > high sec suicide ganking is allowed and legid game style and they have equal rights to play the game the way they wish as much as the miners or mission runners or others . You dont have to love or like it. But you have to respect it . You accept play this game by its rules and all in package No, you’re missing the point. He said CCP created Suicide Ganking as a core aspect of gameplay when it was actually player created emergent gameplay due to high sec game mechanics. CCP allowed it but created Concord, thus putting restrictions on it, then later when others figured out how to get around it, CCP buffed Concord and declared any actions done to avoid Concord is an exploit and subject to ban. I don’t know how long you’ve been with this game but the original forums had threads and updates written by CCP Hilmar dated back from 2003 detailing additions and changes to the game. I never said anything about liking it or not so don’t try to make this into something it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Vlad\_Tepes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/count_vlad_tepes/32/252106_2.png) [@Count\_Vlad\_Tepes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Count_Vlad_Tepes)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/212 "2021-01-20T15:37:59Z")
I was active duty Army for 10 years. The “Powers that Be” saw it fit to send me to basic training, advanced training and then a unit to continue training. When I deployed to Iraq I was mostly prepared for what I experienced. The people in this game that think ganking a one-day-old player is helpful are either trolling or just ignorant. (Yes, I’ve read all of the CCP opinions. I don’t see CCP 🦅 anywhere.) Do I have all the answers? Absolutely not. Do I want this game to thrive? Absolutely! ✔ \*I couldn’t find a falcon emoji…so I used an eagle. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/213 "2021-01-20T15:42:31Z")
DMC is right. “Suicide ganking” is just a term for the activity of _ganking_ … … with the consequence of getting shot down by NPCs. That doesn’t mean CCP created suicide ganking, or ganking. What CCP _did_ was provide an environment where it is possible to gank … … but that’s all there is to it. It’d be like saying CCP created bumping. They didn’t. They simply provide an environment where it’s possible to bump. That doesn’t automatically mean it was their intention, or that they knew it would happen. * * * > [@Count\_Vlad\_Tepes](#): > > I was active duty Army for 10 years. The “Powers that Be” saw it fit to send me to basic training, advanced training and then a unit to continue training. When I deployed to Iraq I was mostly prepared for what I experienced. > [@Count\_Vlad\_Tepes](#): > > The people in this game that think ganking a one-day-old player is helpful are either trolling or just ignorant. (Yes, I’ve read all of the CCP opinions. I don’t see CCP 🦅 anywhere.) And these two relate _how?_ ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Vlad\_Tepes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/count_vlad_tepes/32/252106_2.png) [@Count\_Vlad\_Tepes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Count_Vlad_Tepes)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/214 "2021-01-20T15:47:31Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > And these two relate _how?_ I was simply attempting to show a contrast. Looking for the middle. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922.md?page=11)