# High Sec and New Player Experience Are Tied - Make a change CCP **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 13, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922 "2021-01-13T16:28:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/215 "2021-01-20T16:21:06Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > DMC is right. > > “Suicide ganking” is just a term for the activity of _ganking_ … > … with the consequence of getting shot down by NPCs. > > That doesn’t mean CCP created suicide ganking, or ganking. > > What CCP _did_ was provide an environment where it is possible to gank … > … but that’s all there is to it. > > It’d be like saying CCP created bumping. They didn’t. > They simply provide an environment where it’s possible to bump. > That doesn’t automatically mean it was their intention, or that they knew it would happen. Thank you and you’re right, it’s player created emergent gameplay. In fact over the years CCP has said on multiple occasions that they are often surprised and amazed at the things players think of doing in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Kaivarian\_Coste](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaivarian_coste/32/413759_2.png) [@Kaivarian\_Coste](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kaivarian_Coste)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/216 "2021-01-20T16:39:40Z")
that brings back memories. i used to bookmark mission sites with lots of asteroids in places like Dodixie, and sell the bookmarks on the market so that miners could mine undisturbed. sad to see that this playstyle got nerfed. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/217 "2021-01-20T16:56:21Z")
Ahhh, thanks for mentioning that. Mining regular Ore in mission sites is another PvE activity that can no longer be done. ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/218 "2021-01-20T17:09:38Z")
Does it really matter how suicide ganking emerged since all in one CCP created game … and noone allowed to exploits and has to thrive inside the rules ? ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/219 "2021-01-20T17:20:11Z")
Well yes, it mattered to me and the other person. ---
**Author:** ![hellokittyonline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hellokittyonline/32/244672_2.png) [@hellokittyonline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/hellokittyonline)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/220 "2021-01-20T17:30:37Z")
Very incorrect. The pirate cannot precisely calculate at all. There are MANY variables that lead to failed ganks all the time. Just shut the ■■■■ up with the “gankers have no risk” ■■■■■■■■. It’s already hard enough to be profitable ganking and the ganking community has shrunk considerably in the last year because of it. The gank ‘victims’ were not nerfed at all. None of the things CCP has changed has allowed any of the ships gankers use to gank anything bigger than they already were. Again, there are WAY LESS gankers than there were last year and most of the ones remaining have 20+ accounts. Furthermore, since the removal of Niarja, there is basically 1 pipe instead of 2 making anti-ganking far more annoying as gankers have nowhere to move to. CCP has basically placed a cap on how many gankers can even operate by removing Niarja so the entire basis for your post is incorrect. Gankers are at massive risk, ganking is almost entirely extinct, CCP needs to buff HS PvPers BIG TIME or the game WILL crash. ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/221 "2021-01-20T17:31:21Z")
Why matter ? ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 5:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/222 "2021-01-20T17:45:06Z")
As legend tells it many of the original devs were UO players, some partaking of the art of the gank in that game; CCP should have at least guessed what was going to happen when they made it possible to do the same in Eve. ---
**Author:** ![Trakoro\_Tolada](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trakoro_tolada/32/248953_2.png) [@Trakoro\_Tolada](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trakoro_Tolada)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/223 "2021-01-20T17:49:01Z")
> [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](#): > > Have you tried Singularity? I’m only answering to Ramona McCandless suggestion,don’t blame me for this idea. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/224 "2021-01-20T19:09:33Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > To what do I owe this hostility? Rabid carebearism. You’ve got to understand that the reason these people label PvP as “emergent behavior,” and not developer intent, is because it allows them to frame it as something that wasn’t intentional; almost like some kind of _oversight_ that needs to be _fixed_, as if ganking is some kind of _bug_ or _exploit_ that players found, and needs to be patched out of the game. They will conveniently ignore the fact that if CCP didn’t want players to be able to attack other players outside of wars, duels, et cetera, they would’ve simply changed aggression mechanics to make it impossible, instead of making CONCORD act as a punishment mechanism for it, as opposed to a _prevention_ mechanism. ---
**Author:** ![Trakoro\_Tolada](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trakoro_tolada/32/248953_2.png) [@Trakoro\_Tolada](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trakoro_Tolada)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/225 "2021-01-20T20:00:28Z")
Carebearism is the way to go. Embrace carebearism and see the light. This pew pew paradise will only eat itself over time. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/226 "2021-01-20T20:02:45Z")
> [@Trakoro\_Tolada](#): > > Carebearism is the way to go. I can try, if you provide the drugs… ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/227 "2021-01-20T20:05:54Z")
Now I understand the need for a drone with a 5lb payload. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/228 "2021-01-20T20:15:40Z")
Ey yo man, this kid’s 'aight. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/b/6/b6f692c36cbf65502035257bd2355317c015e3c5.jpeg) True story: when I was in school and they made us do an exercise where we wrote what we wanted to be after we were done with education, I wrote “cocaine-sniffing dog.” Everyone looked at me and the teacher said “you can’t be a dog,” and I said “I’m alright with that.” [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/e/0/e02a44f5a125d2a0ca6aeadecd46477364a63c05.jpeg "High School Boys and Careers") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMpgJpbG5l0) ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/229 "2021-01-20T21:03:13Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > No, you’re missing the point. He said CCP created Suicide Ganking as a core aspect of gameplay when it was actually player created emergent gameplay due to high sec game mechanics By the way, did I ever specify _suicide_ ganking to be made by CCP? Maybe that’s where you went wrong when you interpreted my posts. I was talking about ganking in the general sense of the word and I _never_ specifically talked about _suicide_ ganking, a subcategory of ganking unique to EVE which may indeed be emergent behaviour following the introduction of CONCORD. The simple act of ganking someone in an unfair fight is _not_ emergent behaviour as much as mining rocks isn’t emergent behaviour. CCP enabled the ability to shoot players and shoot rocks in the full expectation that players would shoot those targets. ---
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/230 "2021-01-20T21:06:36Z")
Did the removal of Niarja not make more haulers travel through the multiple 0.5 systems between Hek and Dodixie? Is hauler ganking that dead now? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 9:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/231 "2021-01-20T21:08:04Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > By the way, did I ever specify _suicide_ ganking to be made by CCP? You would be correct if you did anyway. Creating a punishment mechanism for ganking is the same exact thing as creating suicide-ganking. Just like creating the ability to attack players in all areas of space is the same exact thing as creating ganking. No different from creating “mining” by adding space rocks to the game; players didn’t start “emergently behaving” by extracting ore from them with mining lasers Don’t give these people even a shred of benefit of doubt. They’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/232 "2021-01-20T21:10:20Z")
> [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](#): > > Did the removal of Niarja not make more haulers travel through the multiple 0.5 systems between Hek and Dodixie? Is hauler ganking that dead now? There seems to be very little traffic in that pipe. I actually scouted it for a while. Amarr seems to exist as an island now. Either it’s self-sufficient, or it’s running on stockpiles. We won’t know for some time. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/233 "2021-01-20T21:14:00Z")
Well there is a slim possibility that CCP created the CONCORD response and _didn’t_ expect people to try and kill their target within the response timer. Only when severely underestimating the intelligence of CCP we can believe that suicide ganking is indeed emergent player behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/234 "2021-01-20T21:15:30Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Well there is a slim possibility that CCP created the CONCORD response and _didn’t_ expect people to try and kill their target within the response timer. Zero possibility. Why even have a timer? And furthermore, why have variable timers based on system security rating? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922.md?page=12)