# High Sec and New Player Experience Are Tied - Make a change CCP **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 13, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922 "2021-01-13T16:28:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/61 "2021-01-14T16:03:30Z")
> [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > You know that CCP could put much of this dispute to rest with a blog or two, but how often do they volunteer information, especially when it deals with a fundamental problem? > [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > TL,DR: More facts, CCP. Exactly this ^^ ---
**Author:** ![Tharvus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tharvus/32/246994_2.png) [@Tharvus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tharvus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/62 "2021-01-14T16:34:18Z")
> [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > just trying to get accurate information so that most of us can have discussion and debate driven by facts and not mostly opinions. While true I don’t think it really matters, it only matters for the people trying to use (a lack of) numbers to further their own cause and agenda. The problem that is muddying the waters is that those people with an agenda use “think of the newbies” solely for their own benefit, they use it to try and make EVE safer for themselves, easier to AFK. It’s really all just smoke and mirrors. There is of course always an issue with games with people coming in and people leaving and in order to grow that needs to be balanced properly. However, lets think of a truly new player and how he’s doing in EVE: They start doing the initial tutorial (which very recently got changed and now is actually quite good) and then they do the career tutorials which means they end up with some 12 mil isk and a bunch of free ships to use and lose. If they lose a ship to a “random encounter”, regardless of it being an NPC or another player, that doesn’t really affect them much other than a short “oh crap, now what”. They lost at least two ships doing the career tutorials in suicide missions so they’re used to that meaning a kill or a loss is mostly meaningless to them at that point. Besides, they still have a bunch of those free ships and they still have a bunch of money enough to buy quite a few of the ships they realistically can use. I’d say that the majority of new players will go “oh well” and just carry on, there will be some who can’t deal with any sort of loss who might quit over it but honestly they wouldn’t have made it far in EVE anyway so there’s nothing really “lost” or to win there. If anything it will pique their interest trying to figure out what and why it happened. Now to why those surveys wouldn't neccesarily mean anything. EVE is very much a niche game for various reasons and that automatically means that a majority of people aren’t going to like it, for various reasons, which is fine and pretty much the point of creating and running a niche game. If the survey reveals people leave because “the tutorial is crap” or “I couldn’t find anything to do” or similar then that is something CCP can focus on and work. But if the reason of quitting is “I don’t like the base premise of the game”, “I don’t like the competitive nature of the game” or “I got killed” then those players simply aren’t interested in EVE because that’s a main part of what makes EVE EVE. Compare it to this: Marmite is a niche product, most people hate it and some people love it. If they'd do a survey the outcome would probably be "marmite would sell a whole lot better if it tasted like peanut butter" which is factually true but it would be silly because it wouldn't be marmite any more. And then there’d be several people, who’ve been eating marmite for _years_ while actually hating it and wishing it would just taste more like peanut butter, who then go “see, surveys show that it would have much more customers if you’d change it to be like peanut butter”, tHe NumBerS aRenT wRonG!!! That sounds idiotic, because it _is_ idiotic. Just as idiotic for poeple to go “think of the newbies, if only we made EVE safer and easier to AFK”. It’s not the solution to the retention problem, it’s only the solution for players who most certainly aren’t newbies but are risk averse and lazy. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/63 "2021-01-14T17:36:23Z")
This thread stinks of Balos. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/64 "2021-01-14T17:38:15Z")
More facts would be fun for us. But CCP are capable of gathering data and steering the game as they see fit based on that information without including us. This is infact the norm for the gaming industry. These arguments we have, and of which i am frequently a part of, is a dance that almost exclusively goes like this: **Carebear** : _Make the game more safe cause pvp is killing the NPE._ **Everyone else** : _All the evidence suggests otherwise._ **Carebear** : _literally makes ■■■■ up_. **Everyone else** : _links afore mentioned evidence._ **Carebear** : _the evidence is false/out of date_. **Everyone else** : _is there better/more recent evidence?_ **Carebear** : _why are you trolling my thread_? ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/65 "2021-01-14T17:58:40Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Starter systems are protected from non-consensual PvP as they should. They are not. New Player, as in actual new players (not a guy who plays for 5 years who is still “preparing” for null) who do the starter and career missions are protected in those systems, no one else. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/66 "2021-01-14T18:01:51Z")
As always, it’s ab older player who uses “new players” as an excuse to ask for changes to make his farming more secure, what else… And even as a 2004 player he still doesn’t know how the highsec aggression mechanics work, but feels the need to suggest changes to it anyway. 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/67 "2021-01-14T18:17:12Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > he still doesn’t know how the highsec aggression mechanics work Sadly that probably puts him in the majority, I’d wager real money that 70%+ of people, that solely play in hisec, don’t know how the aggression mechanics work. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/68 "2021-01-14T18:23:38Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > Sadly that probably puts him in the majority, I’d wager real money that 70%+ of people, that solely play in hisec, don’t know how the aggression mechanics work. That is a pretty save bet 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Trakoro\_Tolada](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trakoro_tolada/32/248953_2.png) [@Trakoro\_Tolada](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trakoro_Tolada)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/69 "2021-01-14T19:02:15Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > This thread stinks of Balos. He cannot be everywhere ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/70 "2021-01-14T19:12:48Z")
Guilty conscience? Or are you just taking up the slack in his absence? ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/71 "2021-01-14T21:21:03Z")
Just in case you’re not aware: It’s Balos. > [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > This thread stinks of Balos. Oh hey you beat me to it! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/72 "2021-01-14T21:24:50Z")
> [@Tharvus](#): > > it wouldn’t be marmite any more. Wrong! ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/9/4/94c5022d0cf7ccf6a05429adfe03308daf173e22.jpeg) 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/73 "2021-01-14T21:29:41Z")
Oh god, Marmite combined with peanut butter. ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/8/480117cca5079c18ed9e7bdc5c37a528eb462614.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/74 "2021-01-14T22:08:45Z")
> [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > The 2015 talk dealt with info gleaned using exit questionarres that were sent to a small percentage of players who no longer paid to play (no alpha yet). There was no universal “we asked everyone” routine because CCP felt that things in regards to server population didn’t warrant the extra effort and, quite frankly, the data mining ability was not yet up to snuff. Actually, there was universal data presented. Watch it again. Only part of what was presented was an ‘exit survey’. Most of it was based on the analytics of (80,000 was it?) trial accounts and how what they experienced influenced their retention. I can’t believe we still are debating the completely reasonable conclusion of that effort which was pretty much everything else drives more players away than non-consensual PvP. Eve being confusing, boring, lonely, and different drive more people away than losing a ship to a pirate. Now as to the OP, @Olamm is right that the NPE still needs more work but that isn’t highsec. Conflating new players with highsec is missing a core idea of the game and as been said is usually a claim made by newly established or veteran players seeking more safety for themselves. If anything, the NPE should be removed from highsec completely, not highsec turned into a NPE zone. That is certainly less work for CCP and with all their latest tech, a completely new zone has a better chance of improving retention of new players. So much of what made Eve work has been eroded away by carebear tears. It’s now time for CCP to rebuild this great game, and making highsec safer is the very last thing that is on the agenda for 2021. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 11:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/75 "2021-01-14T23:11:04Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Actually, the two fairest comparisons of the EvE simulation to RL are > > 1. 17th Century High Seas Trading Empires > 2. Prison 100 years war is up there too, various factions kicking each other in the nuts, and the local populace getting kicked by them all. ---
**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/76 "2021-01-14T23:15:06Z")
What if nullsec ends up playing out like the Romance of The Three Kingdoms period in China 🤔? Who is Dong Zhuo? Who is Cao Cao? Who is Liu Bei? Who is Sun Quan? Who is Lu Bu? WHO IS DIAOCHAN? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/77 "2021-01-14T23:15:48Z")
Yeah but no defenestration ■■■■ wrong war Ah well if theyd had buildings taller than 2 floors, theyd have done it too. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/78 "2021-01-14T23:18:02Z")
oooo You can’t do that, you’re ruining my standing as the lead user of defenestration on the forums. That was the 30 years war 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/79 "2021-01-14T23:19:11Z")
Well, I guess we will never see true denefestration in EvE Closest we got was The Door. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922/80 "2021-01-14T23:36:32Z")
That’s because we lack Czech beer, Prague is the spiritual home of defenestrations that cause wars. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-and-new-player-experience-are-tied-make-a-change-ccp/289922.md?page=5)