# High Sec issues I have heard, from both new & old **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 17, 2018, 11:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518 "2018-03-17T11:05:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![LouHodo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/louhodo/32/109593_2.png) [@LouHodo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/LouHodo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/82 "2018-03-19T20:11:25Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > CCP does NOT “tweak, nerf, buff, patch” until they achieve their desired effect, because CCP isn’t aiming at anything, they have no overall design goals, and no overall design philosophy. If there’s no “balacned, competitive PvP” in their game, they don’t care. If there’s no PVE worth a damn in their game, they don’t care! Because they have NO GOALS, as far as the gameplay is concerned, whatsoever! Do you have proof to back up that claim? The claim that CCP does not care anymore. Or that they have no goals. Because judging by the dev blog I am willing to say that you are wrong. CCP does care, and they do have goals. If they didnt this game would not have made it 15 years. > [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > when I say “Competent developers would tweak, nerf, buff, patch until the desired gameplay was brought about” I am, in fact, referring to a very specific game company that does exactly that! And prey tell what company is that? Because CCP does this. Look at the Battleship changes due out this month. Or the changes to Assault frigates last month. Or the changes to Battlecruisers… or the changes to stationary objects… or the changes to NPC rat AI… CCP has made changes to this game EVERY month for the past 10 years. And to say they dont tweak, nerf, buff and patch until desired gameplay is brought about… well that sir is a lie. They may not be making changes to your liking but they are working towards the betterment of Eve Online. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/83 "2018-03-19T20:14:31Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Not, they do not. They give more sig radius. You mistake them with Nanofiber Internal Structures. Yep, my bad on that. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > WTH? If that is not tanked, what is? 🤔 1 more Bulkhead would not have made a difference. One more bulkhead would have made a difference. The fit as is: 340K EHP (233K raw HP) with no implants or boosts With 3 bulkheads: 396K EHP (270K raw HP) with no implants or boosts It was a total of 211K damage on the kill, so not perfect skills pilot and no implants or boosts. It’s like you think we can’t do the math, but any way you slice it, 396K EHP (233K raw HP) is different, and more, than 340K EHP (270K raw HP). ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/84 "2018-03-19T20:21:46Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > I linked a tanked freighter as well, which also had the same number of chars on it as an untanked freighter. If I were going to run a gank fleet for say a few hours, I might want 30 people in my fleet. Why? So I can take down a tanked freighter that has 6 billion in cargo value. Heck depending on the pilots skills, implants and the tank I might go for 35. Almost every gank has the exact same begining: _a player overloading his freighter._ Once you’ve done that then you are taking on considerable risk. If the gank fleet is going to offer a fair share of the loot, then putting 6 billion ISK in your cargo hold then a gank fleet of 75 can be warranted and still with a 30 million ISK payout (on and expected basis). ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/85 "2018-03-19T20:25:08Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > If I were going to run a gank fleet for say a few hours, I might want 30 people in my fleet. Why? So I can take down a tanked freighter that has 6 billion in cargo value. Heck depending on the pilots skills, implants and the tank I might go for 35. This exactly. Gankers can only kill what is presented to them, but it doesn’t mean they don’t plan to be able to kill the most, and a properly tanked ship, especially a jump freighter, takes more to kill, so they prepare more people in a fleet to kill. That they need so many people to kill one ship is, as per the original statement made way back now, not an example of broken balance. It’s balance in action. Freighters have a huge advantage until gankers can put a sufficient fleet together. That individual pilots choose to make it easier, well that’s totally on them. Don’t be that guy. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/86 "2018-03-19T20:26:07Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > That they need so many people to kill one ship is, as per the original statement made way back now, not an example of broken balance. It’s balance in action. Freighters have a huge advantage until gankers can put a sufficient fleet together. There you go again, ignoring everything that was said earlier. :facepalm: You do not need big numbers to destroy freighters. Tanked freighters are an exception but for everything else 10-12 chars are more than enough. Freighters have no advantage at all in their favor because, for one, alt farms have been made a huge self-paying thing thanks to CCP, and secondly 10-12 people is not a large number of characters necessary to gank that ship. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/87 "2018-03-19T20:29:01Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > There you go again, ignoring everything that was said earlier. :facepalm: Quote the sentence above what you just quoted, as the whole post is one piece, not individual pieces to be taken out of context of each other So I agree on the facepalm. Don’t be the idiot that makes it easier. That isn’t on the gankers. That’s on the freighter pilots. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Tanked freighters are an exception Data? How many freighters don’t get ganked, because they are tanked properly? ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/88 "2018-03-19T20:30:51Z")
I don’t need to because I agree with the with the rest to some extend. Just the quoted part is complete rubbish when you look at the actual numbers necessary to destroy a freighter. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Data? An exception in the sense that you actually potentially need more than 10-12 characters to destroy them, not that they don’t fly around. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/89 "2018-03-19T20:34:48Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > An exception in the sense that you actually potentially need more than 10-12 characters to destroy them, not that they don’t fly around. How do you know it is an exception then? How many properly tanked freighters never end up being attacked at all because they present a target that the gankers don’t have the numbers for at the time? How many get scanned and gankers go looking for easier targets? It’s clear that data doesn’t exist. Some of the regular gankers could give us a sense of it, but I’ve never seen them post that information in a thread (could have missed it). So your “exception” is just an argument to fit your own view already. Meaningless and you have no real clue whether it is an exception or not. ---
**Author:** ![Auto-da-fe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auto-da-fe/32/53227_2.png) [@Auto-da-fe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auto-da-fe)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/93 "2018-03-19T21:40:19Z")
> [@LouHodo](#): > > And prey tell what company is that? Because CCP does this. Look at the Battleship changes due out this month. Or the changes to Assault frigates last month. Or the changes to Battlecruisers… or the changes to stationary objects… or the changes to NPC rat AI… > > CCP has made changes to this game EVERY month for the past 10 years. And to say they dont tweak, nerf, buff and patch until desired gameplay is brought about… well that sir is a lie. > > They may not be making changes to your liking but they are working towards the betterment of Eve Online. On most forums, actually Naming & Singing the Praises of other games and game companies is considered “ADVERTISING”, and some of those forums will ban you for ‘Advertising’. So, … Also, if you can’t name a game company that has a better development process than CCP you seriously need to stop playing EVE Online and take up ANY other game! Also, kindly link the Dev Blogs that you are referring to, because when I look at the CCP Dev Blogs all I see is the same old same old they’ve been doing for years! they’ve been making ARBITRARY and pointless changes to ships for years! They Nerfed the Drake, for no reason at all! They nerfed the Hyperion, from 8 to 6 turret hard points, For No reason at all! They changed this cruiser and that battlecruiser for no reason at all! We’re constantly logging in to ships with RED slots because they’ve been altered for no reason at all! And for what??? None of these changes reflects a Design Goal! There is still no PvP in the game! The only ship that’s being used is the Cheap, Disposable Destroyer for Suicide Ganking! Such changes are pointless and arbitrary! Except for the Assault Frigate … that change is REACTIONARY (which is just a fancy way of saying: Pointless and Arbitrary!) But, the question here, is about BUMPING. people are saying that the Freighter was ‘intended’ to be used a certain way, and that there is certain ways to counter the bumping. IF certain objects were intended to be used a certain way BUT are NOT being used that way by players, why doesn’t CCP address this and tweak, nerf, buff, patch until the desired gameplay is brought about??? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/94 "2018-03-19T21:43:55Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > I don’t need to because I agree with the with the rest to some extend. Just the quoted part is complete rubbish when you look at the actual numbers necessary to destroy a freighter. Don’t forget that when we go EFT-warrioring we often set All Vs as the default, but my guess is that is a bit excessive. Dropping the DPS down also increases the number of people necessary to gank a freighter. ---
**Author:** ![Auto-da-fe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auto-da-fe/32/53227_2.png) [@Auto-da-fe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auto-da-fe)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/95 "2018-03-19T21:52:28Z")
Because CCP has NO design goals. ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/96 "2018-03-19T21:53:44Z")
/shrug EvE has my desired game play. If it didn’t, I wouldn’t still be here. I do play other MMO games. There’s a new take on an early RVR MMO that I’m backing. I suspect it will be fun, but it won’t replace EvE. I’ll just play it along with EvE. It’s like you eternally live in an old Applejacks commercial. EvE is fun, you just don’t get it. And that’s fine. Go to a game you do enjoy. Leave us this one. –Gadget is Legion in games too ---
**Author:** ![Galaxy\_Chicken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/galaxy_chicken/32/45651_2.png) [@Galaxy\_Chicken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Galaxy_Chicken)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/97 "2018-03-19T21:59:09Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > They Nerfed the Drake, for no reason at all! They nerfed the Hyperion, from 8 to 6 turret hard points, For No reason at all! They changed this cruiser and that battlecruiser for no reason at all! We’re constantly logging in to ships with RED slots because they’ve been altered for no reason at all! And for what??? Ummm, for no reason at all? Is that it? Do I win? ---
**Author:** ![Khergit\_Deserters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khergit_deserters/32/319315_2.png) [@Khergit\_Deserters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khergit_Deserters)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/98 "2018-03-20T00:46:35Z")
_1. PvP is mandatory. Get over it._ My own opinion, of which everyone has one, and they’re like something you sit on-- they usually stink. I don’t think newbros should be subjected to involuntary PvP. Because Eve is so wealth-intensive-- you need isk to move on, and you have to be clever to decide on and navigate ways to gain isk… That’s the IQ appeal of this thing, as opposed to getting into a guided tour through some mass appeal MMO. Leave broke newbros alone, let them do the Eve pve stuff for as long as they want to do it. It’s challenging enough on its own. No need to put random high sec blapping on top of people enjoying testing the learning curve. _2. I can’t afford to PLEX._ These guys probably got the wrong message, due to an ad campaign. If somebody thinks they like Eve, they can probably manage to pay the US $.5 needed to just play and not worry about PLEX grinding. I know many players are students without income of their own. But if they get into a good corp, and contribute to it, I’d bet the guys with ISK surpluses would help them out. Eve players are like that. _3. What’s the point? They’re mega-rich. We can’t even challenge them any more._ Yer just thinking about it all wrong mate. Eve isn’t some kind of leveling thing, and finite options about pathways and situations. If somebody is mega-rich, you can always jack with their attention to things and consciousness, via lil ships, chat, whatever, guerilla style. Or just go try to eat fish of you own size, and work on you plan of world domination! _4. High Sec needs to actually be High Sec._ New guys coming in ought to be left alone, to just explore Eve and enjoy it. Crap, that’s what thousands of players did when Eve was building up. But the problem is non-newbro bots and afk farmers. Hard to resolve the two. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 9:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/99 "2018-03-20T09:57:01Z")
> [@Ildrara](#): > > High sec only needs one simple change. > > A player that initiates warp can’t be bumped. A ship that has initiated warp, cannot be bumped. It can, however, be bumped while aligning. ---
**Author:** ![Cindy\_the\_Sewer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cindy_the_sewer/32/10425_2.png) [@Cindy\_the\_Sewer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cindy_the_Sewer)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 10:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/100 "2018-03-20T10:56:21Z")
> [@Brok\_Haslack](#): > > 1. PvP is mandatory. Get over it. > > 2. I can’t afford to PLEX. > > 3. What’s the point? They’re mega-rich. We can’t even challenge them any more. > > 4. High Sec needs to actually be High Sec. > > 5. [summarized from your post] You need to go to nullsec to continue to develop. 1. This has to stay, it is to fundamental to the game. 2. This is a problem of Nullsec and to lesser extents other regions being ‘mega-rich’ as you put it and thus for them a PLEX is as little as a few minutes away, even incompetent nullsec players should be able to PLEX their accounts in a few hours tops. This is a HUGE problem but given CCP’s on-going love affair with nullsec i don’t think this is going to change, though i personally think nullsec incomes need hit hard in the face. 3. This is a legitimate problem that needs help, I will concede here despite what i said in the statement above that CCP has made some changes to slow down nullsec income but not nearly enough. 4. Highsec is reasonable safe after you learn the tricks of EVE highsec survival like flying sub-2 second align time ships for travel, the microwarp drive jump trick for T1 haulers, safe docks, safe undocks and a whole host of other things. 5. CCP has always pushed people towards nullsec and punished them if they didnt go. This is their long standing stance on the issue. CCP believes it knows better what people want out of EVE than the players themselves. This, ‘push everyone to nullsec’, attitude that CCP seems destined to hold onto with a death grip till some other game comes out and sweeps away people that dont want to play in nullsec will ultimately be their undoing, at least you can take some comfort in that for now. ---
**Author:** ![Wavemistress\_Moidel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wavemistress_moidel/32/211447_2.png) [@Wavemistress\_Moidel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wavemistress_Moidel)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/101 "2018-03-20T11:04:14Z")
You think you want a safe high-sec but you don’t really. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 11:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/102 "2018-03-20T11:05:24Z")
> [@Wavemistress\_Moidel](#): > > You think you want a safe high-sec but you don’t really. The greatest beneficiary of HS security/rule set, is NS entities that trade there. They cant much trade with their neighbors in NS, and the volume of customers is far smaller in their own hubs, which largely dont do that much trading, but operate as warehouses for freighter pick-up/drop-off of material moved to and from HS. Its not dissimilar to the age of the Hudson Bay or East India Company. Valueable NS goods are shipped out to the HS markets, and the ships return with certain amenities either on consignment, or for stocking the company store for use/purchase by company members in NS. * * * As was the case with both Hudson Bay, East India and any number of such chartered companies, they had offices/facilities/operations both abroad and at home. They where the ones selling their imported goods sourced from the far reaches of the world (NS) back at the actual trade/commodities markets (HS). It can be said, that NS entities are infact “home-based” in HS, just as the Hudson Bay and East India Company where based in London. Their NS holdings are just where they source valuable resources from. Goons/Delve, is an exception to that. They are legit creating an autonomous state, outside of HS, in NS. ---
**Author:** ![Brok\_Haslack](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brok_haslack/32/12672_2.png) [@Brok\_Haslack](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brok_Haslack)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/103 "2018-03-20T12:11:01Z")
This makes sense. Concord is on their side if you strike first etc. ---
**Author:** ![Brok\_Haslack](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brok_haslack/32/12672_2.png) [@Brok\_Haslack](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brok_Haslack)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/104 "2018-03-20T12:12:09Z")
Not me, but… Disabled Pilots etc. In other posts & parts of these Forums. And they are Pilots, as well as ISK for CCP revenues ( to keep the servers switched on ). [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518.md?page=6)