# High Sec issues I have heard, from both new & old **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 17, 2018, 11:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518 "2018-03-17T11:05:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/125 "2018-03-20T20:41:33Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > FACT: CCP markets EVE Online as a PVE game > FACT: CCP doesn’t want people playing PvE in EVE Online. > [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > The Facts that CCP markets EVE Online as a PVE game and CCP doesn’t want players to PVE _ **and wants to force them into PVP and Null Sec** _! GOAAAALLL…er…what? You can’t just move the net. Coach!! * * * Seriously though, EvE is about player competition in all aspects. PVE is one of those aspects. Pew-Pew is another. > [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > But that Dev Blog proves that CCP views its game as a PVP game as INTENDED for PVP but can’t quite bring it about, AND that PVE is NOT intended, despite being the way it markets its game! Those are two different things! The game can be competitively minded and still need players to interact with the environment to accomplish stuff. They just need to watch out for others, whether in gathering resources, stopping them from gathering resources (or getting stopped), or selling those resources. Competition is intended - and how people go about “winning” the competition is up to the players. They can shoot a rock, a player, or a rat, or they can play the market, scam in Jita, or build Empires. PVP (as in pew-pew) is just one method. Competition (the broad definition of PVP) is the goal. –Gadget uses both ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/126 "2018-03-20T21:43:01Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > However, we only need to read the following to prove, without any further doubt, that the intent of the NPC Corp tax was to drive players OUT OF NPC corps and out of High Sec That’s what I wrote, so yes. However, you claimed it was all about pvp and there are hundreds of google results that support that, yet it isn’t even supported by the words of CCP on this very site. ---
**Author:** ![LouHodo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/louhodo/32/109593_2.png) [@LouHodo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/LouHodo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/127 "2018-03-20T21:43:16Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > They want to create a PvP game, but they can’t! Poor planning, poor design and poor development have resulted in something in the game that is a far cry from PvP! No matter what “SEC” you are in, the lack of a ship hierarchy, the ridiculous modules, the inability to imagine Space PvP, have resulted in “N+1”, just bring more ships! No depth! No strategy! No thought! Just mindless ganging up! Hmm funny, I would have thought that too. But last night, the fleet I was part of, total of 10 guys, managed to clear the grid of a fleet twice our size, in ships half the cost. Because our FC knew what he was doing, and theirs didnt. ---
**Author:** ![Auto-da-fe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auto-da-fe/32/53227_2.png) [@Auto-da-fe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auto-da-fe)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/128 "2018-03-20T21:51:27Z")
Instead of talking to Gadget and Others. ---
**Author:** ![Ivan\_Bloodguard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ivan_bloodguard/32/49954_2.png) [@Ivan\_Bloodguard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ivan_Bloodguard)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/129 "2018-03-20T22:38:20Z")
I hate to break it to you Auto, but money is all that matters to any game company. If they aren’t profitable, they shut down the servers and it’s over. I do remember one guy who seemed really passionate about making a great game. Last I checked, he’d pulled in $175 mil or so and still hasn’t delivered a real product. ---
**Author:** ![Auto-da-fe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auto-da-fe/32/53227_2.png) [@Auto-da-fe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auto-da-fe)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/130 "2018-03-21T21:34:02Z")
> [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > Gonna need a source for the second one. > > Or maybe your definition of PVE. > > Because in mine, you are encouraged to do PVE in EvE. In fact, it’s built in - where do you think most minerals and ISK come from? Doing strictly PVE is of course player choice - sandbox and all that - but I don’t see CCP as poo-pooing PVE so long as the competition is still there. > > All aspects of EvE involve player competition. Some also call this PVP - some take a more narrower view of PVP and only apply it to shooting each other. Nomenclature is irrelevant in the long run. I will repeat, all aspects of EvE involve player competition - including the PVE portions. > > CCP gets this; that’s why its there. > > –Competitive Gadget wants all the stuff The Trolls are taking a Holiday??? 🤨 Oh well, I’m sure that after their holiday and a nice long, vigorous shower in which they desperately try to wash away all the things they’ve been doing, asking themselves what they’re doing with their lives and wondering if they still have a shred of humanity left, they’ll be back tomorrow and they’ll no doubt need someone, something, to troll. Let’s look at this post, in which someone demands that I cite a source for a statement that I have made, even though the post in question begins with a quote from another player saying the same thing BUT this particular person NOT only does NOT use any quotable, citable source or reference, but this person speaks as if their feelings and interpretations are more valuable than objective facts or citable sources! > [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > Because in **_mine,_** you are encouraged to do PVE in EvE. That’s NOT an objective fact, or citable source. That’s pure subjectivity. Nothing but saying “Pah-Taa-Tah” whenever anyone says “Puh-Ta-Toe”. > [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > but I don’t see CCP as poo-pooing PVE so long as the competition is still there. That’s NOT an objective fact or a citable source! more subjectivity! > [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > All aspects of EvE involve player competition. Some also call this PVP - some take a more narrower view of PVP and only apply it to shooting each othe These statements are NOT objective facts either! And then comes this bizarre statement \>\>\> > [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > Nomenclature is irrelevant in the long run. I don’t doubt that for someone who thinks their own opinions are more important than objective facts and citable sources would HAVE TO conclude that “how things are named and defined” is irrelevant! Because the objective world certainly is _ **IRRELEVANT to YOU** _! Its quite unbelievable that someone would demand a citable source for something that is generally known, and then act as if their own statements not only need no confirmation, but DON’T EVEN HAVE TO BE BASED ON REALITY TO BE ABSOLUTELY, UNDENIABLY TRUE!!! ---
**Author:** ![Auto-da-fe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auto-da-fe/32/53227_2.png) [@Auto-da-fe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auto-da-fe)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 10:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/136 "2018-03-21T22:14:33Z")
> [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > You listed something as a “fact”. I questioned this statement and asked where you got this information from. Fact One: CCP markets EVE Online as a PVE game. Fact Two: CCP doesn’t want or intend for players to engage in PVE! So far, it all checks out. You asked for a citable source! And then … > [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > Then I followed up with my own views but not any objective facts or citable/checkable sources or references. Seems they can only handle a few sentences at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 12:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/140 "2018-03-22T00:54:42Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > Fact One: CCP markets EVE Online as a PVE game. > > Fact Two: CCP doesn’t want or intend for players to engage in PVE! Fact one, sure. There are plenty of examples where marketing includes PVE. No problem. It’s also marketed for a range of other aspects that give EVE the depth it has (eg. metagame aspects are often included in marketing, fleet comms and large group organisation, etc.). There is a lot of different marketing, and PVE is definitely part of that. Fact Two though? In game and from on-going development it’s clear that PVE is a huge focus in the game. So how is it a fact that CCP doesn’t want or intend for players to engage in PVE? Opinion sure. We are all entitled to them. As a fact though? On what basis? ---
**Author:** ![Auto-da-fe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auto-da-fe/32/53227_2.png) [@Auto-da-fe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auto-da-fe)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 1:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/141 "2018-03-22T01:12:10Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Fact one, sure. There are plenty of examples where marketing includes PVE. No problem. It’s also marketed for a range of other aspects that give EVE the depth it has (eg. metagame aspects are often included in marketing, fleet comms and large group organisation, etc.). There is a lot of different marketing, and PVE is definitely part of that. > > Fact Two though? > > In game and from on-going development it’s clear that PVE is a huge focus in the game. So how is it a fact that CCP doesn’t want or intend for players to engage in PVE? > > Opinion sure. We are all entitled to them. As a fact though? On what basis? Tag Team Trolls! First, I didn’t say or even imply that PVE was the ONLY thing CCP Markets EVE Online as. Second, the “Fact Two” has already been questioned and proven to be fact in this very thread! the fact that the local trolls do not read is not my problem. If you can’t be bothered to scroll up and read, stop talking. stop taking up space with your childishness. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 6:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/147 "2018-03-22T06:58:56Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > First, I didn’t say or even imply that PVE was the ONLY thing CCP Markets EVE Online as. No one wrote that you did. > [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > Second, the “Fact Two” has already been questioned and proven to be fact in this very thread! the fact that the local trolls do not read is not my problem. If you can’t be bothered to scroll up and read, stop talking. stop taking up space with your childishness. Rubbish. Nothing has been proven in this thread or any other that: _CCP doesn’t want or intend for players to engage in PVE!_ Even the New Player FAQ contains a lot of encouragement for PVE (pp. 23-33): > **[EVE-Online-New-Pilot-FAQ.pdf](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/communityassets/pdf/EVE-Online-New-Pilot-FAQ.pdf)** The only fact is, your claim in “fact two” is factually wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 7:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/150 "2018-03-22T07:20:29Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > sufficient evidence has already been provided to prove that CCP does NOT want players to PVE in EVE Online. They do. PvE is as crucial for the economy, as is PvP. Its just that all PvE activity happens in an omnipresent PvP context. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 7:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/151 "2018-03-22T07:34:19Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > If I were a forum moderator, I would remove all childish posts that say nothing more than “NOPE, YOU’RE WRONG” without anything to substantiate such a claim. Well, that’s ok. Wouldn’t be mine then, since I provided evidence to substantiate that you are wrong. Now, where is this evidence proving you are right, which doesn’t exist in this thread? A single piece of evidence (as linked above) that proves the opposite, completely disproves what you claim is a fact. ---
**Author:** ![Auto-da-fe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auto-da-fe/32/53227_2.png) [@Auto-da-fe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auto-da-fe)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 7:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/152 "2018-03-22T07:57:14Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > They do. > > PvE is as crucial for the economy, as is PvP. > > Its just that all PvE activity happens in an omnipresent PvP context. thanks! for making the first NON-childish, rational statement this thread has seen in a long time! However, your statement should read: “”…its just that all PvE activity …was/is intended…to take place in an omnipresent PvP context …“” and I would certainly have no problem agreeing with that. However, this is precisely what is at issue, what EVE Online is intended to be and what EVE Online actually is. It is the “…omnipresent pvp context…” which they fail, utterly, to establish. The presence and rule set of High-Sec, the NPC corporations and EVE Online advertising create and depict a game in which the PvE is completely separate from the PvP. CCP needs this confusion in its game and at the same time doesn’t want it. Suicide Ganking wouldn’t even be possible in an “…omnipresent pvp context…” ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 8:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/153 "2018-03-22T08:02:08Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > However, your statement should read: “”…its just that all PvE activity …was/is intended…to take place in an omnipresent PvP context …“” That’s exactly how CCP see it. No one has any problem with that. This is not consistent with your ‘fact’ claimed before. PVE is absolutely essential to the economy and pvp cannot really exist without the pve and vice versa. CCP quite openly state that EVE is a fulltime pvp in a sandbox environment. PVP is the only compulsory element of the game, in that it is always present and the game allows it to be applied to anyone, whether they want it or not. That however doesn’t mean CCP don’t want or intend for players to engage in PVE, and no evidence in this thread proves that statement to be fact. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 8:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/154 "2018-03-22T08:21:11Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > Suicide Ganking wouldn’t even be possible in an “…omnipresent pvp context…” Suicide ganking is an example of omnipresent PvP context, it just happens to have a PvE reaction from CONCORD. ---
**Author:** ![Auto-da-fe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auto-da-fe/32/53227_2.png) [@Auto-da-fe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auto-da-fe)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 9:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/155 "2018-03-22T09:15:51Z")
CCP needs this confusion in its game and advertising because NO ONE would be attracted to or buy into what passes for “PvP” in EVE Online. Except, of course, for Cyberbullies and Trolls. Like one review of EVE Online says; “Don’t play EVE Online unless you like trolling or being trolled.” ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 9:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/156 "2018-03-22T09:18:13Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > CCP needs this confusion in its game and advertising because NO ONE would be attracted to or buy into what passes for “PvP” in EVE Online. 1. The confusion is only on the part of players who either genuinely do not understand what EVE is/is not, or have not looked into it. 2. I understood, as much as I could at the time, what I was getting into in EVE. You cant PvE in EVE, without risk of PvP. This is not a difficult concept to internalize. * * * The specifics of engagement mechanics are, admittedly, very complicated and manifold. I dont “blame” players for not understanding them. Even I still dont understand everything. No-one does. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Buldath](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_buldath/32/381437_2.png) [@ISD\_Buldath](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Buldath)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 2:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/239 "2018-03-25T14:04:14Z")
100 posts were removed for being the personal Pissing match between a few players and off topic. ~Buldtah ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/240 "2018-03-25T18:18:44Z")
Despite the valiant efforts of ISD Buldath, this particular train wreck is inevitable. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/8/9/89ec2348f4d9d34f892adc6d6eb2bc7c57da647d.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Kranyoldlady](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kranyoldlady/32/173331_2.png) [@Kranyoldlady](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kranyoldlady)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518/241 "2018-03-25T20:02:30Z")
You are forgetting that this is a sandbox, not a spaceships world of warcraft. Zero tollerance for stupid 🙂 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-issues-i-have-heard-from-both-new-old/63518.md?page=8)