# Highsec ESS **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Tags:** high-sec, pvp\ **Created:** [April 5, 2024, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349 "2024-04-05T20:39:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/1 "2024-04-05T20:39:32Z")
I don’t believe I ever made a post on this, (or seen another topic directly addressing the idea,) even though I’ve thrown some support behind the idea in the past. Reasons: 1. People have complained about the state of highsec pvp due to the changes in the wardec system and the Retribution suspect timers. Highsec ESS would give those players an outlet for this activity, especially if it were divvied up into separate plex hull size locations like fw is. The outside gate could have a hack mechanic, that would (when successfully hacked) turn the flagging mechanic inside the site from the global suspect flag, to a limited engagement timer applied to everyone in the site. 1. Highsec earnings are a bit unbalanced to other areas in the game. Ess would lower the raw isk generated by people in safe areas (assuming pvp players raid the banks.) I understand some people wouldn’t like this, but highsec does make a bit too much at the moment compared to other more dangerous activities. ---
**Author:** ![Azazod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/azazod/32/336190_2.png) [@Azazod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Azazod)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/2 "2024-04-05T22:24:31Z")
A better idea would be to make everywhere nullsec. ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 10:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/3 "2024-04-05T22:56:13Z")
[Project Awakening](https://www.projectawakening.io/) might be that. Sign up for it if you want null everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 4:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/4 "2024-04-06T04:51:58Z")
High sec income is already far lower than anywhere else. Make it even lower still, that will surely make people feel enthusiastic about it. ![3_npc_bounties_by_region](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/b/0/fb0809042fa52259457b7393fd30da04b690c5dc.png) Lonetrek is the first LS/HS region after 3 rows of null sec regions, and generates 10x less bounty income than VOTS. Sure, high sec makes “a bit too much”. ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 5:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/5 "2024-04-06T05:22:43Z")
According to your figure you displayed, Metropolis would be the first one (end of the second row,) but that’s not really a good metric to go off of. Firstly, there’s nothing separating lowsec and highsec in that picture. Secondly it makes no indications of what activities the money is coming from in null. If I had to guess, your null numbers are primarily from caps and supers crabbing (ships that can’t even exist in highsec.) Thirdly, total amount of income is not an indication of a problem with balance. That ignores the number of people involved in activates and how long they stay at those activities. You can’t calculate isk per hour off of what you’ve shown there. Lastly, that infographic doesn’t take into account LP generation for highsec and lowsec activities. In short, you’re going to need the information packaged in a different manner if you want to suggest highsec income shouldn’t be nerfed. Besides, you can always raid the bank yourself, and then you wont have your income reduced. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 8:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/6 "2024-04-06T08:40:00Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Besides, you can always raid the bank yourself, and then you wont have your income reduced. Then you get the money from everyone else as well, which does not work as there are no coherent groups in high sec per system. You are either stealing money from them or they steal from you, depending on who gets the milking done. That’s a really, absolutely great experience for all the people involved. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Firstly, there’s nothing separating lowsec and highsec in that picture. Secondly it makes no indications of what activities the money is coming from in null. If I had to guess, your null numbers are primarily from caps and supers crabbing (ships that can’t even exist in highsec.) Thirdly, total amount of income is not an indication of a problem with balance. That ignores the number of people involved in activates and how long they stay at those activities. You can’t calculate isk per hour off of what you’ve shown there. Lastly, that infographic doesn’t take into account LP generation for highsec and lowsec activities. That’s all irrelevant because the income on high sec is by design far lower than anywhere else in the game. Even if you include all possible forms of currency generation (ISK, LP), you end up making far less than in low sec or null sec with the same activities. An ESS in high sec only hurts players and offers no positive gameplay aspects that you cannot already achieve with other, actually EVE-like activities like mission loot stealing. If you want easy target farming, you should have to put effort into tricking the targets to engage you where they are active and not with easy-mode farming hotspots. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > According to your figure you displayed, Metropolis would be the first one (end of the second row,) but that’s not really a good metric to go off of. Metropolis is first, but it’s an FW region. Most of that income comes from FW, not from high sec activities. Lonetrek is not an FW region and only a very small area around Taisy generates significant low sec income with L5s. Most of the income should thus come from high sec, as it’s a much larger portion of the region. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/7 "2024-04-06T12:28:40Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > and generates 10x less bounty income than VOTS. Sure, high sec makes “a bit too much”. The majority of the Highsec Income isn’t in bounties. Tbh, bounties are often the smallest part of your income in HS. You can’t compare these values. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/8 "2024-04-06T14:03:30Z")
This is an awesome idea! I’d love a high-sec version of the ESS. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/9 "2024-04-06T16:00:59Z")
In general I like the idea, because if Nullsec has an ESS mechanic tied to the bounty system, I see little reason why LowSec and HighSec shouldn’t (lore-wise). Would fit into a more streamlined system so people can learn how things work in HS and are used to the mechanics once they go to Low/Null. However: For the sake of keeping things simple (K.I.S.S. ruleset) I would apply the same rules for robbing ESS in High/Low like in Null. > [@](#): > > EVE Wiki: > > ### Mechanics > > The ESS is available as a beacon in space which anyone can warp to. At the beacon there is a [deadspace](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Deadspace) acceleration gate, which is restricted to hulls of [cruiser](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Cruiser), [battlecruiser](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Battlecruiser), and [battleship](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Battleship) size only. The beacon is surrounded by a “non-interactable object” which will decloak any ship and is a bit over 100 km in diameter, centered on the beacon itself. The gate leads to the physical ESS tower itself, which is surrounded by a 75km-radius Warp Interdiction field which disables > > - [Warp drives](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Warp) > - [Cloaking devices](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Cloaking) > - [Microwarpdrives](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Propulsion_equipment) > - [Micro Jump Drives](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Propulsion_equipment#Micro_Jump_Drives) > - [Cynosural Fields](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Jump_drives#Cynosural_fields), and > - [Filaments](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Filament) The only difference would be a global suspect flag for anyone entering in High/Low, so he is freely engagable by anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/10 "2024-04-06T16:15:48Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > However: For the sake of keeping things simple (K.I.S.S. ruleset) I would apply the same rules for robbing ESS in High/Low like in Null. Agreed - good suggestions! ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/11 "2024-04-06T16:31:04Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > However: For the sake of keeping things simple (K.I.S.S. ruleset) I would apply the same rules for robbing ESS in High/Low like in Null. You also forget that in high sec X different groups dump money into the ESS but only one can take the stuff out when you empty it yourself. ESS mechanics from null don’t work in an area where there are no unified groups filling it up. Good luck KISSing this. Furthermore, you also forget that you do not fill up only 1 ESS like in null sec where you only rat in 1 system and only really rarely go outside that system for escalations. Missions send you to tons of different systems all the time. Have fun KISSing this. Again: This does not make anything better. It makes everything worse for the majority of players only to please a really loud, and lazy, minority. > [@Syzygium](#): > > The majority of the Highsec Income isn’t in bounties. Tbh, bounties are often the smallest part of your income in HS. You can’t compare these values. Considering that most LP from Missions is worthless because of FW, the LP income argument does not work. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/12 "2024-04-06T16:50:51Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Again: This does not make anything better, it makes everything worse for the majority of players only to please a really loud, and lazy, minority. It creates ways for legal PvP, which Highsec barely sees any more outside the totally crappy wardec system. A missionrunner who get occasionally the ESS part of his bounty stolen simply doesn’t lose much money (as said, the bounty part isn’t significant in Highsec) so really nothing that would “ruin” anything. Also anyone trying gets suspect, you have all the chances in the world to deal with it once you get the message that the ESS is under threat. Go there and make pew pew if you like, or shrug it off, it won’t be more than a few pennies. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Then he can’t say that “HS generates too much income”. Sure he can and he is right. Income isn’t only bounty. The majority of the income is in LPs. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Considering that most LP from Missions is worthless because of FW, the LP income argument does not work. It does because you don’t seem to do math. I sell normal mission LP for 2k each, minimum. I have turned in _billions_ of ISK just in the recent week from L4 missions. Items sell like sliced bread and prices are pretty high right now. FW literally has zero impact if you know what to sell and where/when to buy tags. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/13 "2024-04-06T17:03:16Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > It creates ways for legal PvP, which Highsec barely sees any more outside the totally crappy wardec system. We already have that with proper EVE mechanics like loot theft. > [@Syzygium](#): > > Also anyone trying gets suspect, you have all the chances in the world to deal with it once you get the message that the ESS is under threat. Go there and make pew pew if you like, or shrug it off, it won’t be more than a few pennies. That’s beyond naive. That ESS will be any number of jumps away from where you are currently running a mission and from your base. It’s naive to assume that you would go into an ESS with your mission ship. But I guess this is what you want: Easy farming. As said, it ruins a lot more than it improves. And mostly not because of the theft but because of how reward sharing works in the ESS. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/14 "2024-04-06T17:12:24Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > We already have that with proper EVE mechanics like loot theft. No we haven’t, because a) loot theft isn’t worth the hassle usually, at most you can go scan some MTUs but even they aren’t worth the time in most cases. and b) there is literally no risk for the offender right now, because he simply can warp off any time and go dock Or even cloak just in front of you when you warp on Grid. Can’t do that within an ESS site. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > That’s beyond naive. That ESS will be any number of jumps away from where you are currently running a mission and from your base. I probably do A LOT more missions than you do and where I do them like 90% are within 2 jumps of the Agent base. So there is a very high probability that once an ESS is attacked, you either are in the same system or max 1-2 jumps out. Absolutely no biggie to warp to that within 6 minutes, even if you have to go dock to switch ships in between. And of course the system could be tweaked to increase the ESS-timer. 6 Minutes is Base for 0.0, can be +1 minute per 0.1 of SecStatus the system has. So someone would need to hold out 12 minutes in a 0.6… Even if the missionrunners wouldn’t want to fight for their stuff, some unrelated PvPers in the Constellation might. Or even bait people with high bank amounts into ESS-traps. Yes, it will surely bring more entertainment than the current boring grind-state of HighSec. ---
**Author:** ![Ancantes\_Auge\_Dunier](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ancantes_auge_dunier/32/323591_2.png) [@Ancantes\_Auge\_Dunier](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ancantes_Auge_Dunier)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/15 "2024-04-06T18:40:21Z")
Hey look another 100 000 000 SP character crying that he cant camp hi sec mostly causual or newbros money in his 8B PVP MARAUDER… You want to kill newbros and causuals then go gank them. Oh w8 you already do … so whats the problem ??? ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/16 "2024-04-06T19:23:44Z")
What’s the issue with a high-sec ESS? Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 8:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/17 "2024-04-06T20:52:43Z")
Who exactly are you talking to? ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 11:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/18 "2024-04-06T23:37:22Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Then you get the money from everyone else as well, which does not work as there are no coherent groups in high sec per system. Same thing happens in null. Sure it might be your org that raids the bank, but farmers aren’t the people getting the payout unless they participate in the raid. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > That’s all irrelevant because the income on high sec is by design far lower than anywhere else in the game. Except for all the L4 mission bounties / LP payout, Homefront payouts, Abyssals, ect. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Even if you include all possible forms of currency generation (ISK, LP), you end up making far less than in low sec or null sec with the same activities. There’s no mission running in sov null, so we can’t really make a comparison there. Belt ratting and anom hunting have a large difference, but people only do that in empire for one of two reasons. To complete their dailies, or to get an escalation (for the purposes of getting deadspace modules.) So, there’s no issue with ess there. However, those activities do pay out pretty well, and you can to 3/10s in a t1 frigate. Years ago when I was ratting and running null anoms, on average I’d be making about 15 a tick, 20 if I was really moving. You can make that same amount running t1 abysaals in a punisher with far less risk. Sure, income is higher in null if you can run the 10/10s with your t3 cruiser / marauder or go crabbing with your phoenix, but the levels of investment and risk there are much higher in null. Similar levels of investment do not have vastly varying amounts of payout to take into consideration the risk involved. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > An ESS in high sec only hurts players and offers no positive gameplay aspects Highsec pvp is lame. Station games and trying to catch people at gates. You need a mechanic that puts people in a situation they have to commit to. ESS provides that. Tbh, I’d like to see that same warp disruption effect in fw complexes and battlefields too. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > mission loot stealing. Most of the loot is garbage, and the majority of mission runners have been around long enough not to fall into a trap like that. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > If you want easy target farming, you should have to put effort into tricking the targets to engage you where they are active and not with easy-mode farming hotspots. imo, most of the people to engage in pvp in highsec ESS will be pvpers. The majority of farmers will just count it as a loss. So, no, it’s not about easy target farming… it’s about encouraging pvp in a manner that isn’t this terrible station game nonsense. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Metropolis is first, but it’s an FW region. Most of that income comes from FW, not from high sec activities. FW only pays out in LP. There are no bounties. Besides, if that were the case, Black Rise, Essence, Placid, Devoid, and The Bleak Lands should also be affected. Metropolis has some L4 anoms that are associated with the L4 Minmatar epic arc, but I haven’t seen them being overly farmed. I think it’s more likely those bounties are from L4 mission running. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/0/6/906c571550a06497ef09a060a20f68bf38a140b0.png) There’s a L4 SOE security agent in that pocket. > [@Syzygium](#): > > However: For the sake of keeping things simple (K.I.S.S. ruleset) I would apply the same rules for robbing ESS in High/Low like in Null. > [@Syzygium](#): > > The only difference would be a global suspect flag for anyone entering in High/Low, so he is freely engagable by anyone. Fair point. I only allowed for the hacking mechanic to allow for people who were slightly more risk adverse to participate, but I don’t overly care. So that would be fine. > [@Syzygium](#): > > if Nullsec has an ESS mechanic tied to the bounty system, I see little reason why LowSec and HighSec shouldn’t (lore-wise). Would fit into a more streamlined system so people can learn how things work in HS and are used to the mechanics once they go to Low/Null. Good points. Yeah, I’m in favor of teaching people mechanics in a less stressful environment that can be extrapolated into other areas. Good game design does this. And it’s how you can have complicated mechanics be easily understood because they’re intuitive. ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2024, 12:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/19 "2024-04-07T00:18:34Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > However: For the sake of keeping things simple (K.I.S.S. ruleset) I would apply the same rules for robbing ESS in High/Low like in Null. I suppose, instead of doing this: > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > especially if it [Highsec ESS] were divvied up into separate plex hull size locations like fw is. We could just have other content, that emulates fw complexes for more entry level stuff. Obviously if highsec ESS becomes a thing and all ships are allowed, it will be filled with ships newbies can’t compete with, so it wont really fulfill the role of entry level pvp. It’s certainly ok to gear some content toward that, but imo entry level pvp should be entry level (t1 ships, ect.) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2024, 12:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ess/445349/20 "2024-07-06T00:18:42Z")
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