# Highsec Ganking Dead - Are you happy now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [December 27, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623 "2022-12-27T19:54:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/204 "2023-01-01T14:38:51Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > I am working at a vet, it’s a nice job, I doubt that very much. People who abuse animals don’t bring them into the vet for the fear of getting caught abusing said animal. Nice try tho. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/205 "2023-01-01T14:41:09Z")
So you think abused animals never end up at a vet? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/206 "2023-01-01T14:45:35Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Go ahead, go look through your own posts and count up how many times you insult someone or try to drag the conversation off-topic onto their killboards or some other criticism of them as a person. Oh…you mean like how your response to my statement on _general_ behaviour in highsec consisted of you _personally_ attacking my experience ? Actually when I look back through the posts…the first person to resort to ad hominem is invariably you. I generally have a pretty light hearted response to everything…except when faced with ad hominem and dishonesty. And again I ask…where is your _proof_ of ‘the impact would be negligible’. Stop demanding proof from others as a distraction from you never providing any yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 2:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/207 "2023-01-01T14:50:53Z")
You’re going to need to provide a source as I have no idea what you’re talking about. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Actually when I look back through the posts…the first person to resort to ad hominem is invariably you. Not only are you often the first to engage in personal attacks, you actually stalk from one thread to another to do so. If I respond to you anywhere I know that I’ll start getting notifications on other threads where you are trying to troll. From what I’ve seen other people experience the same. Anyone who disagrees with you is attacked. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > And again I ask…where is your _proof_ of ‘the impact would be negligible’. Stop demanding proof from others as a distraction from you never providing any yourself. So I asked you for proof. You responded by not providing any proof and instead demanding I provide you proof. And from that you’ve concluded that _I’m_ the one distracting from providing proof? ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/208 "2023-01-01T14:54:28Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > So you think abused animals never end up at a vet? I’ll be more than happy to continue this conversation with your main, Lucas. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 2:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/209 "2023-01-01T14:56:20Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Not only are you often the first to engage in personal attacks, you actually stalk from one thread to another to do so. If I respond to you anywhere I know that I’ll start getting notifications on other threads where you are trying to troll. Er…its a public forum. Only someone with severe paranoia imagines they are being ‘stalked from one thread to another’. Get a grip ! > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > So I asked you for proof. You responded by not providing any proof and instead demanding I provide you proof. What ? _You made the original claim._ " When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a _burden of proof_ to justify or substantiate that claim" > **[Burden of proof (philosophy)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy))** > > The burden of proof (Latin: onus probandi, shortened from Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat – the burden of proof lies with the one who speaks, not the one who denies) is the obligation on a party in a dispute to provide sufficient warrant for its position. > When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim, especially when it challenges a perceiv... ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 2:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/210 "2023-01-01T14:56:28Z")
I’m still not that person. There’s no discussion to be had anyway, you’re wrong, end of discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/211 "2023-01-01T14:57:04Z")
Actually, you made the original claim. Kindly provide proof or stop talking, please. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/213 "2023-01-01T14:59:31Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > You’re the problem. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Provide proof or stop talking. Someone is getting abusive. Just don’t take it out on your dog, okay? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/214 "2023-01-01T15:00:33Z")
OK. Well…making claims and then demanding everyone else provide disproof and there is no onus on the claimer to prove their own claim…is what trolls do. And I have no desire to debate with trolls. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/215 "2023-01-01T15:02:21Z")
You made the claim, so you provide the proof. You frequently make the claim that without ganking the game would fall apart, so I am calling on you to provide proof or stop making that claim. For casual readers it’s also important to note that I haven’t actually called for the removal of ganking, I just don’t believe Altara’s claim that removing it would have some huge reverberating impact on the game. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/216 "2023-01-01T15:07:44Z")
You stated, entirely of your own accord and quite unambiguously, that if ganking were removed ‘the impact would be negligible’. _Your exact words_. You made a claim. You have failed to provide the same level of proof of it that you persistently demand of others. Might I suggest you familiarise yourself with this word… > **[Definition of HYPOCRISY](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy)** > > a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not : behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion; an act or instance of hypocrisy… See the full... ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/217 "2023-01-01T15:09:29Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > You frequently make the claim that without ganking the game would fall apart, She does? Where are these exact words posted from her. I’ve noticed a particular habit on your part, Lucas. That you take peoples words and twist them to either make them look bad, or to make your quasi-argument more viable or derail the conversation. Here’s another example > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > So you think abused animals never end up at a vet? I never said that. Or even eluded to it. I like how you even made it an absolute by including the word _never_. It really just goes to show how much of a forum troll you really are. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/218 "2023-01-01T15:11:39Z")
Anyone that wants to can read up and see that I was commenting on your claim that ganking does very little damage. You’re making the claim that removing ganking would have a huge impact. This is a claim you’ve made dozens of times before. You’ve never provided proof. Provide proof or stop making that claim. We both know you won’t. You’ve already shown it here. I asked you for proof of your claim and your response was to counter-demand proof from me then you actually tried to claim I’m the one trying to distract from it. I asked first, onus is on you. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/219 "2023-01-01T15:14:29Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > That you take peoples words and twist them to either make them look bad, or to make your quasi-argument more viable or derail the conversation. Ah yes…its the old tactic of _not_ quoting people but instead presenting a twisted, distorted, version of what they have said. It’s another variant of the famous Cathy Newman ’ so you’re saying… ?’ Personally I would add ‘dishonest arguing’ to the list of forum offences. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/220 "2023-01-01T15:16:06Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > You’re making the claim that removing ganking would have a huge impact. This is a claim you’ve made dozens of times before. As Ax’l says…you make these claims yet never provide an actual quote. ’ Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools’…as Kipling put it. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/221 "2023-01-01T15:17:22Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Personally I would add ‘dishonest arguing’ to the list of forum offences. I’ll vote for that change. Good luck accusing people of being alts, insulting people or criticizing their killboards as a way to avoid a discussion with a rule like that in place. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > As Ax’l says…you make these claims yet never provide an actual quote. So then you don’t think that removing ganking would have a huge impact? Is that what you’re saying? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 3:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/222 "2023-01-01T15:20:50Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Good luck accusing people of being alts, insulting people or criticizing their killboards Oh…you mean you’d have totally uncalled for comments like your ad hominem “You’re not exactly an experienced pilot”, _which had no bearing as a response to what I’d actually said_…removed ? Oh, wait, as with demanding ‘proof’…its one rule for you and another for everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/223 "2023-01-01T15:22:18Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > killboards You seem pretty fixated on killboards. There’s more to EvE then a metric. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > So then you don’t think that removing ganking would have a huge impact? Is that what you’re saying? You know exactly what’s she’s saying. Why do you keep trying to twist peoples words? Is that all you have left in your arsenal? ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623/224 "2023-01-01T15:24:44Z")
I’ll ask again. Do you think removing ganking would have a huge impact on the game? If yes, provide proof. You’ve previously claimed it would but now you’re saying you have made no such claim, so answer it then everyone will be clear on your position. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/highsec-ganking-dead-are-you-happy-now/389623.md?page=12)