# Hilmar want to remove or correct NPC station and Assest Safety in Eve! **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 18, 2020, 3:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794 "2020-12-18T15:45:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 10:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/121 "2020-12-22T10:56:33Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > This is how they had the time for all that. Thats why AFK activities and automation in gameplay must survive. It helps economy and people. NPC stations where everyone can produce, Belts harvested by orcas, Everything without constant fear of being shot at. These are essential for people to become bored enough to try something more than farming, and wealthy enough to finance their hobbies. What must go away are bots. But CCP dont know how to deal with them. But spoiling game for everyone is not the way. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/122 "2020-12-22T11:21:28Z")
Should have picked Amarr, we have plenty 🤣 sry, couldn’t resist 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 11:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/123 "2020-12-22T11:44:58Z")
_looks at self_ But… I am Amarr lol ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/124 "2020-12-22T16:27:34Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Thats why AFK activities and automation in gameplay must survive. It helps economy and people. NPC stations where everyone can produce, Belts harvested by orcas, Everything without constant fear of being shot at. These are essential for people to become bored enough to try something more than farming, and wealthy enough to finance their hobbies. You are so, _so_ wrong about this. Like, you quite literally have a complete 180 view of human psychology compared to its established understanding. And I’m not going to claim to be an expert here, but I’ve read history, and let me tell you: the reason that the system works this way is because of the _exceptionally_ high ratio of people who desire the comfort of safety and routines as opposed to risk and uncertainty for a shot at glory. Throughout history, if you went to any community of average peons, threw a bunch of swords on the ground, and offered the choice (without duress) of joining you on a campaign for wealth and glory, or continuing to deal in dung, as you’ve said, the _grand_ majority would opt for the latter, and that’s if you have any takers _at all_. This is why warriors have been an elevated social class; because it takes a _certain kind of person_ to live that kind of life. So no, just because there would be a system in EVE in which these people have their needs met financially, doesn’t mean that they’d suddenly start branching out into other activities, fighting over resources, et cetera. I have _years_ of direct observation on this, and many stories to tell, like that one time I infiltrated a group of carebears who were “at war” with another similar local group. Except, they weren’t at war _physically_. They hated each other’s guts, but the only thing they ever did was rail against and insult each other in local. As in full-on, sailor-mouthed cussing. They were all _fat_ and had plenty of assets, and they were combat capable because they also ran missions, but none of them ever tried to actually _physically_ address their differences by bringing out some armed ships and asserting their will. So I asked the group I was in why they weren’t doing it, and was met with an awkward silence, and a changed topic. Then I got bored, and rolled up on them and destroyed both. They were literally taking turns crying in local about me killing them, even though they could’ve completely dominated me in garbage-fit cruises by virtue of their sheer numbers. So no, none of these mindless farmer and grinder drones are going to switch to anything else, regardless of how bored they are, or how financially secure they are. I understand the wishful thinking behind your notion, and I agree that it makes sense _on paper_ that players would behave the way you describe, but it just _doesn’t_ happen in practice. ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/125 "2020-12-22T16:50:20Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Like, you quite literally have a complete 180 view of human psychology compared to its established understanding. This describes like 99% of Eve players…? God the neckbeard just emanates off the rest of your post… equating gankers to “warriors” lmfao, like, I could feel you tipping your fedora as you typed. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 4:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/126 "2020-12-22T16:57:53Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/d/a/da1bd0ad6add8eecc9b76c867a207bbb560971bc.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 12:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/127 "2020-12-23T00:36:54Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > You’re completely missing the point that was being addressed, that having 50,000 farmers in high sec would not harm the game but would actually benefit it. Having a few thousand farmers in hi-sec wasnt a benefit. Hard to see how more of a bad thing is good. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > I’m not sure anyone would call the current pricing or even the recent pricing of ships and modules “cheap”. I did. CCP implied it when they addressed the economy and said loss had lost it’s meaning. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > But Cruisers and battleships and Large Shield modules are not so ‘cheap’ that players were casually throwing them away. Except they are. T2 and T3 cruisers and Faction battleships are the norm for any decent engagement. Titans are thrown away in fights let alone cruisers. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > The game stagnated because it’s designed badly, because it’s barely retaining any new players, and because CCP is unable to conceive of anything cool and workable to add to the game, and even furhter, unable to code it if they did so. It stagnated because CCP nerfed content in the areas most people play. Simple as. All those player driven stories, all that agency and achievement, the emotion and unique player to player interactions. Taken out in favour repetitive themepark grindy features. That is literally it. A visceral and controversial game transformed into another run-of-the-mill MMO. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 3:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/128 "2020-12-23T03:00:39Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > You are so, _so_ wrong about this. Like, you quite literally have a complete 180 view of human psychology compared to its established understanding. And I’m not going to claim to be an expert here, but I’ve read history, and let me tell you: the reason that the system works this way is because of the _exceptionally_ high ratio of people who desire the comfort of safety and routines as opposed to risk and uncertainty for a shot at glory. I am not wrong. I know people are like this, and thats the nature of us. And there was never a stupid person living too long or presperous life, peon or soldier. The civilization is not only war and cutthroat competition. And everyone of them didnt want to lose their life or stuff they worked on. They wanted to have more. But means of achieving it were different. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Throughout history, if you went to any community of average peons, threw a bunch of swords on the ground, and offered the choice (without duress) of joining you on a campaign for wealth and glory, or continuing to deal in dung, as you’ve said, the _grand_ majority would opt for the latter, and that’s if you have any takers _at all_. Not any community, and situation varied thru history. Society changes. How much do you know history and society in those times? Peons suggest medieval time. There was a class society, there was really big difference between classes. The people who fought wars then were skilled and taught from early years and the best ones had pretty good armor. Later that changed. The guns changed things. Now you could have had a lot of people shooting on long distance whitch is really easier than melee combat. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > This is why warriors have been an elevated social class; because it takes a _certain kind of person_ to live that kind of life. So no, just because there would be a system in EVE in which these people have their needs met financially, doesn’t mean that they’d suddenly start branching out into other activities, fighting over resources, et cetera. Takes a certain class of person then. Now you can be drafted and learn how to shoot a rifle in general direction of the enemy, in the worst case. The first line of battle are now drones operated from far away. This is reality. The war is now not some hero guy, its seek and destroy technology that gives advantage. to one of the sides. You just have to invest in it. You have to train the operator. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > they could’ve completely dominated me in garbage-fit cruises by virtue of their sheer numbers. They were not a designated fighting unit. What you deal with was just a corporation like people in microsoft, the same kind of people, seeking the same values. You have been that guy who knows how to shoot rifle and decided to shoot it. With other corporation where yopu have security that would be different. You would face FC with bunch of people keeping his back. They didnt had the leader, and they were not there for war in the first place, so dont be surprised. > none of these mindless farmer and grinder drones are going to switch to anything else They were thinking, but not about PvP. By anything else you think only about PvP? Thats not anything else. Thats very specific set of skills and knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 3:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/129 "2020-12-23T03:08:24Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > They were not a designated fighting unit. What you deal with was just a corporation like people in microsoft, the same kind of people, seeking the same values. You have been that guy who knows how to shoot rifle and decided to shoot it. With other corporation where yopu have security that would be different. You would face FC with bunch of people keeping his back. > They didnt had the leader, and **they were not there for war in the first place** , so dont be surprised. But that’s **exactly** the point I was making. These players are _not_ here for war in the first place, and no matter what kind of carrots or sticks you offer them, that’s _not_ going to change, and no matter how bored they are, they only way they’ll ever stop farming is by _quitting the game_. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/130 "2020-12-23T03:19:41Z")
War is not a pretty thing. You can see few from the ugly side. Its never pretty. Some people want something else. From life and from game, later in life. Only mistake is they started playing the wrong one. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 3:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/131 "2020-12-23T03:21:03Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Only mistake is they started playing the wrong one. We keep trying to tell them that, but they won’t listen. So then we end up using them as content, and they cry. And then we all argue on the forums about it. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 3:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/132 "2020-12-23T03:22:29Z")
Soon enough Hilmar will make it so you can be content fot yourselves. 😂 The carebears will quit and dont come back. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 3:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/133 "2020-12-23T03:23:40Z")
Doubtful. They’ve been threatening to do that for a very long time, and yet there’s more of them now than ever. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 3:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/134 "2020-12-23T03:24:28Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > there’s more of them now than ever. Data needed. But what will be in future I am pretty sure now. There will be less of them. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 3:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/135 "2020-12-23T03:26:45Z")
I can’t quantify that for you. All I can say is that I remember a much smaller ratio of players doing nothing but grinding high-sec PvE many years ago. Also, many more of them fought back when challenged compared to today. And I doubt you’ll disagree about null-sec “krab” observations especially. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 3:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/136 "2020-12-23T03:30:26Z")
The way people can play the game now is different than it used to be, sure, the game changed, and will change more. CCP will make sure to harvest as much as they can from the power hungry people who can be fooled by space pixels. With constant change. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 3:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/137 "2020-12-23T03:48:43Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > And I doubt you’ll disagree about null-sec “krab” observations especially. It changed. Have you seen recent MER? People go to do other things. So if the number of players didnt change, they only do whats more efficient. The whole situation in EVE seems to start looking like a scenario where the evolution have to pass thru the mass extinction phase, the civilized times are behind us. The environment changes. The relics of bygone ages only left to rot in mud… ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 4:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/138 "2020-12-23T04:02:48Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Throughout history, if you went to any community of average peons, threw a bunch of swords on the ground, and offered the choice (without duress) of joining you on a campaign for wealth and glory, or continuing to deal in dung, as you’ve said, the _grand_ majority would opt for the latter, and that’s if you have any takers _at all_. > > This is why warriors have been an elevated social class; because it takes a _certain kind of person_ to live that kind of life. You keep making these weird appeals to authority, “I know what I’m talking about here, I’m the real deal, I make a _career_ of this, I train _warriors_”, and yet still getting virtually all of your ‘facts’ wrong. Throughout history, most soldiers have been volunteers. They were motivated by pay, by plunder, by lack of anything else to do. In a few societies, _some_ classes of “warrior” have been ‘elevated social class’: knights, or Roman patricians for example. However the vast majority of soldiery throughout history has been drawn from the ranks of the ordinary peasant, serf or citizen. You seem to have this real mental block where “willingness to do battle” implies greatness and the select few, and the vast majority of people are just cowering wage-slaves. If you actually knew any of the things you claim to be versed in, or had read any history, you’d know there’s never been a shortage of people willing to take up arms at virtually any excuse at all. In fact, the primary shortage has been actual arms they can get their hands on (swords don’t grow on trees), not a lack of people willing to use them. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 4:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/139 "2020-12-23T04:15:42Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Throughout history, most soldiers have been volunteers. They were motivated by pay, by plunder, by lack of anything else to do. How does this conflict with what I’ve said? That was kind of _the whole point_. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > However the vast majority of soldiery throughout history has been drawn from the ranks of the ordinary peasant, serf or citizen. And when there weren’t enough volunteers, which was very often mind you, they levied and conscripted. The point is that the volunteers were _vastly_ outnumbered by those who wanted nothing to do with warfare. Or are you going to argue against that too? > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > You keep making these weird appeals to authority > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > You seem to have this real mental block > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > If you actually knew any of the things you claim to be versed in You keep throwing in these little bits like you’re desperately trying to “win” and make everyone see how many fallacies I’m committing, how much of an armchair this and a pseudo that I am, and all I’m doing is trying to put out an argument about why EVE players tend to act a certain way in order to find practical solutions to the game’s current problems (e.g. “not enough people are willing to take risks, why is this and what can we do about it?”). You have a really weird set of priorities, but whatever float your spaceboat, I guess? ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 4:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794/140 "2020-12-23T04:35:50Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Throughout history, most soldiers have been volunteers. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > How does this conflict with what I’ve said? That was kind of _the whole point_. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Throughout history, if you went to any community of average peons, threw a bunch of swords on the ground, and offered the choice (without duress) of joining you on a campaign for wealth and glory, or continuing to deal in dung, as you’ve said, the _grand_ majority would opt for the latter, and that’s if you have any takers _at all_. Pretty sure “if you gave people the choice to fight, you’d likely not have any takers at all” and “Warriors have been social elites” conflicts with the actual facts. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The point is that the volunteers were _vastly_ outnumbered by those who wanted nothing to do with warfare. Or are you going to argue against that too? The point you keep making is that virtually no one at all can be lured, bribed or persuaded into battle. And yet the entire history of humanity has been one of almost continuous warfare, with tens and hundreds of thousands and even millions involved in battle. There’s never been any shortage of combatants. The limitation hasn’t been how many people are _willing_ - it’s been how many you can train, equip and command. The largest and most popular games available are built purely on player vs player combat. They outnumber and outearn EVE by orders of magnitude. You can barely _stop_ people from engaging in conflict, given the right conditions. The relevance to EVE is that those willing to do battle in real life had a reason to do so. In the massively popular combat games, people have good reason to expect a satisfying experience from their combat. In EVE, except for a select few, there **is** no good reason to engage in battle. For most players it will simply cause a pointless loss and waste of time. If EVE had better mechanics to encourage battle, you’d see a lot more of it. Speaking of little bits thrown in, you keep stating your incorrect opinions as facts, with no actual data or references, getting them wrong, and then dodging and weaving as hard as you can to distract from the fact that you got it wrong (again). “Oh I mixed that group up with another group”, “Oh that’s just a number I vaguely remember from somewhere 10 years ago”, “Oh I have _years_ of direct observation on this”. Seriously, wouldn’t it be easier to just check your facts before you make up stuff to type? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hilmar-want-to-remove-or-correct-npc-station-and-assest-safety-in-eve/285794.md?page=8)