# "hisec players are too apathetic and disorganized" - thoughts

**URL:** <https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hisec-players-are-too-apathetic-and-disorganized-thoughts/348012>\
**Category:** Assembly Hall\
**Tags:** pve, pvp, high-sec\
**Created:** [February 1, 2022, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hisec-players-are-too-apathetic-and-disorganized-thoughts/348012 "2022-02-01T13:55:00Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 53

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**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\
**Post date:** [February 2, 2022, 10:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hisec-players-are-too-apathetic-and-disorganized-thoughts/348012/53 "2022-02-02T10:02:24Z")

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> [@Khyriana](#):
>
> PvP players

> [@Khyriana](#):
>
> PvE players

I have some candid feedback: It makes _no_ sense to define a **player** by an **activity** and therefore try to paint them with a “value system”. Words like “miners”, “gankers”, “PVP-ers”, “PVE-ers”, “mission runners”, “abyss runners”, “market-makers”, “haulers”, “arbitragers”, “pod racers”, “gate jumpers”, “warp-initiators”, “planetary-interaction-ists”, “industrialists”, “manufacturers”, “explorers”, “scammers”, “contractors”, “mercenaries”, “ESS robbers”, “CRAB deployers”, “gate campers”, “pirates”, “bumpers”, “anti-gankers”, etc are reflective of this kind of thinking.

A single player can do _multiple_ activities. Activities are like clothes, a _single_ player can go out and try on or wear multiple, sometimes at the same time. Trying to put a straight-jacket on everything and declare “players that do X activities think _blah_” is unnecessary stereotyping and, well, wrong, because there’s too many individuals to know all their values.

If I can suggest an alternative way of thinking: the _alone_ and _not-alone_ dichotomy.

There are players that want to play _alone_ in the sandbox world and get very upset when unable to. I also include the mentality of “it-must-be-played-my-way” in the _alone_ category. Fundamentally, the _alone_ bucket is about **denying the agency of peer players** to engage the sandbox however it allows _them_ on _their own_ terms.

_Non-alone_ players recognize the **equality afforded to everyone** to engage the sandbox on their own terms. That means sometimes there is tough luck: someone else decided to ruin whatever plans you had that day, or refuses to behave in a “logical-metawise way”, or refuses to behave according to the self’s ideas of what the rules _should_ be. Recognizing that innate **freedom and equality** afforded to each other in the sandbox is what characterizes this group.

Note that “alone” and “not-alone” play says nothing about solo/group play: there are groups that get mad when _other_ people just won’t behave in a manner that makes sense in “the meta” or “according to their rules”; and there are solo players that engage the sandbox fully expecting the pain and hardship and limitations and challenges associated with being 1 person up against the universe.

Please don’t try to associate people with activity-labels, reality is more nuanced than that.

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