# How are minerals not free? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 1, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769 "2017-10-01T17:25:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/62 "2017-10-02T09:31:58Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > I’m out, because dumb off topic discussions are pointless. Goodbye. You failed to answer a simple question. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/63 "2017-10-02T09:36:26Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > I value my time and consider the amount of effort I invested into writing this answer 1bil ISK and not “free” Yet you didnt get 1bil for your post. Infact it is I that got your 1bil post for free. It cost me nothing, whereas, in your mind, you just lost 1bil. Guess I win, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Jev\_North](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jev_north/32/100533_2.png) [@Jev\_North](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jev_North)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/64 "2017-10-02T09:44:32Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > If you find 100 rubies, berries or pennies in a field and gather them up, are they not free? Answer. [http://www.blakefallconroy.com/18.html](http://www.blakefallconroy.com/18.html) Sometimes “free” just isn’t a good deal. ---
**Author:** ![Patti\_Potato\_Patrouette](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/patti_potato_patrouette/32/18901_2.png) [@Patti\_Potato\_Patrouette](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Patti_Potato_Patrouette)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/65 "2017-10-02T10:13:05Z")
Dude, whether you gather them directly is irrelevant. In your example you go out and gather these resources ‘freely’ in the sense that you do it by choice, you are not constrained at all, the berries do not have an owner… However they have a cost which is the effort excerpted to gather them and time spent. As if you had spent all day gathering the bounty of the land to feed yourself, and I came in punched you and ran off with them (ganked you) you would a) go hungry b) not have time to gather more food as you had spent all day (the cost) gathering this food, that I stole c) probably say 'what a waste I spent my day and achieved nothing’ d) you would then have to obtain food from someone else who had gathered more, in exchange for another good which might not be currency it might be a future good or something like friendship / care etc. So even in a pure hunter gatherer society, pre money, most basic barter economy resources have a cost, so they are not free but they are free, in the sense you are gathering them as the **basis** for your economy and you don’t have to **buy** them. So we are not arguing, we are having two different conversations using two different concepts of free, the argument arises because the OP uses both interchangeably without specifying, and does not consider the context (where ore and minerals fit within the economy) defines the correct use of ‘free’ for this discussion. I think, Patti x ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/66 "2017-10-02T10:31:57Z")
So you basically say your posts are worthless? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/67 "2017-10-02T10:51:47Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > How is mining a faucet? extract minerals reprocess build a titan insure a titan welp a titan now you are granted newly created isks. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/68 "2017-10-02T10:54:16Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > extract minerals > > reprocess > > build a titan > > insure a titan > > welp a titan > > now you are granted newly created isks. Insurance is an ISK faucet, yes. Insurance isn’t mining and it’s the insurance that creates the ISK, not the mining. ---
**Author:** ![mkint](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkint/32/14424_2.png) [@mkint](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/mkint)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 11:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/69 "2017-10-02T11:01:25Z")
Worth =/= value =/= cost. Nothing has ever leaked out of that thing’s think meats that wasn’t worthless, brown, and runny. I was hoping it had given up the forums with the transition to the new ones, or that we’d at least have a way to effectively silence and exclude it from all discussions. So yeah, everything it has ever said has been totally worthless. Those dribbling words have value only to it. Yet they cost it both time and energy to squeeze them out of its balloon knot, and it cost us time and energy to read them. Funny how worthless things can still have a cost, isn’t it? That thing is, and always has been a troll. It will continue to willfully “misunderstand” the most basic concepts, so I advise never replying directly to it. But yeah, time is the only resource humans actually have. If something costs you time, it had a cost. It was not free. Is the money you make at your job free? Is the time and effort of running your own business result in free money? The value a person places on their time, or any other resource, does not change that an exchange happened. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > insure a titan > welp a titan > now you are granted newly created isks. Aside from that, a faucet is any source of anything. Mining is a mineral faucet (but not an isk faucet.) Just like missions are LP faucets, and wrecks are salvage faucets. Ores are an exchangeable commodity just like anything else. That doesn’t really come into play for this topic as I believe the point of that was to signify value, which is an entirely different concept from cost. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/70 "2017-10-02T11:04:53Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > So you basically say your posts are worthless? I’m saying you think you lost 1bil on your post. I’m saying that I got your post for free. Its pretty clear in the original post. Perhaps you should re-read it. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/71 "2017-10-02T11:14:42Z")
I understand you post I just asked a follow-up question you somehow failed to answer. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 11:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/72 "2017-10-02T11:32:07Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > I understand you post I just asked a follow-up question you somehow failed to answer. My post cost 0 isk. You seem to think your post cost 1bil isk. So you lost 1bil isk, and I got your post for free. ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/374866_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/75 "2017-10-02T13:26:26Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > > > If you want to go down one of your rabbit holes, then sure, you can gather those directly and they aren’t minerals. > > I can gather gold in the north of Finland from streams for free. > Gold is a mineral. > > Your attempt to somehow single out minerals as different than any other primary source commodity, is false. > > If you come across 100 rubies, berries, or pennies somewhere in a field, and you gather them up, are they not free? If you’re not in Finland, you can not do anything in Finland. Thus being in Finland haves a cost thus mining gold in Finland is not free. Second, if you already are in Finland, right of pass doesn’t give mining and forestry rights in privately owned lands. You can pass and gather natural resources, but cutting trees and extracting minerals is not allowed unless it’s your land. But then if it’s your land, it haves a cost… ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/76 "2017-10-02T13:33:54Z")
You see, that is where you are wrong. The op asked for a post to explain his errors at the payment of 1bil ISK, which I delivered. It was the work put into that post that costs 1bil ISK and is therefore owed to me by the op. The result of that work is published in an open form and you can read it without cost. However you don’t own the content of that post, it is still owned my me, you are just allowed to consume it. So the only thing you gained is new knowledge because of my eloquent and completely valid answer. You still failed to answer my question btw and just reiterated what you already said. ---
**Author:** ![Wanda\_Fayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wanda_fayne/32/377654_2.png) [@Wanda\_Fayne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wanda_Fayne)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/77 "2017-10-02T13:34:45Z")
Sheesh, when “Prove” is required nobody actually sources the definition of cost? > **[Definition of COST](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cost)** > > the amount or equivalent paid or charged for something : price; the outlay or expenditure (as of effort or sacrifice) made to achieve an object; loss or penalty incurred especially in gaining something… See the full definition 1b “the outlay or expenditure (as of effort or sacrifice) made to achieve an object” Not withstanding the refining of ore, the cost is time and effort. Free: > **[Definition of FREE](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free)** > > not costing or charging anything; having the legal and political rights of a citizen; enjoying civil and political liberty… See the full definition 1. “not costing or charging anything” ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 1:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/78 "2017-10-02T13:59:30Z")
> [@Nasar\_Vyron](#): > > It has everything to do with #4 on your list. > > Your time is not free, unless you consider yourself a slave. > > Time spent doing X is time not spent doing Y. Therefore the value of the minerals you mine are directly related to what you value your time spent gathering, compressing, hauling, refining, hauling again to be worth in relation to what you could have been doing balanced against your competition and what they value their time to be worth. No it does not, Either you are playing the game or you are not. Either you are gathering minerals or you are not. It is as simple as that, your answer is invalid, you lose. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/79 "2017-10-02T14:01:48Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > so its no different from farming isk > > minerals you mine arent free in the same way isk you farm isnt free > > theyre both free if thats what youre doing with your time > > im not sure why this is a thing tbh This is not about making/farming ISK. Only about acquiring minerals. Your answer is invalid, you lose. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/80 "2017-10-02T14:04:31Z")
You are not thinking hard or smart about this, quit living in the the world others have built for you. Hopefully you can take what your saying and provide a correct answer, you are on the path… But your answer is invalid, you lose. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/81 "2017-10-02T14:05:12Z")
Then simply in any of those, you are not acquiring minerals… Answer invalid, you lose ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/82 "2017-10-02T14:07:09Z")
Again, you also are trying to impart the terminology of opportunity cost… If you are doing the other, you are not acquiring minerals. Your answer is invalid, you lose ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/83 "2017-10-02T14:09:53Z")
This is about acquiring minerals yourself, and are they free to do so… Permits or ganking have no place here, though i would of thought a Code member would have been able to do this… Your answer is invalid, you lose [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769.md?page=5)