# How are minerals not free? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 1, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769 "2017-10-01T17:25:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/84 "2017-10-02T14:14:04Z")
A player can roll a new Alpha character on an Omega acc, or just create an Alpha account. With a corvette or the 1st free venture and gear, and a free hauler from tutorial and career agents, a player can grind the necessary standings doing distro missions in no time flat for the 0 tax reprocessing ability. Without spending a dime, that same player can go mining, and then turn ore into minerals without ever spending a single dime in ISK…or in RL cash actually. See #3, would of thought a CSM member would not fail this hard. Your answer is invalid, you lose. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/85 "2017-10-02T14:15:22Z")
They are not free because you have to buy assets to mine them. And this continues with charges for boosts and of course replacing T2 crystals. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/86 "2017-10-02T14:15:43Z")
Thing is, I answered your question. Not my fault if you worded it badly. You asked about _minerals_. Not about Ore. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/87 "2017-10-02T14:15:57Z")
Would you care to elaborate? Because either you are playing the game or you are not. If you are not playing the game then your time here means nothing. Same with are you acquiring minerals or not. If not?.. If you do not care to elaborate if you are able, Then your answer is invalid and you lose. ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/88 "2017-10-02T14:17:58Z")
I didn’t read the whole thread… I’ll just give the basic answer. When people say that “minerals aren’t free” what they are talking about is how you should determine how to price what you make from those minerals. Simply put… if the minerals used to make a ship cost 5m isk… the price you charge should never be less than 5m isk. Because if you mine the minerals you can sell them for 5m instead of making a ship that you’d then sell for 4m. The “cost” of the minerals you mine is the price you can sell them for. Using them is giving up the chance to sell the minerals… which is the same as spending isk to buy the minerals. If you can only sell the ship made from 5m isk worth of minerals for 4m… you made 5m from mining than lost 1m from manufacturing. You netted 4m isk… but your choice to manufacture actually caused a loss. If you sell the ship for 6m isk… you made 1m in profit from manufacturing (and 5m from mining). Now is “mining” by itself free? Sorta. There is an opportunity cost when you mine in that you could spend your time doing something else. The time investment is real. But it is as “free” as any other activity in eve that creates items or isk without input materials. It’s “free” in the same sense of the “free” vacation you get when you go let someone try to sell a time share to you… you’re giving up time. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/89 "2017-10-02T14:18:33Z")
> [@Octoven](#): > > Minerals have whatever value you assign them, just like anything else. That being said, any kind of object in the game derives its value from what the majority of people determine it to be. If your value is higher than avg, your chances of selling it is little to none whereas if your value is less than what the avg is, you will sell faster. In any case, time is the factor. > > If you are not using the minerals to build with as you pointed out in rule 1 then your question is by your own rules irrelevant. Without a purpose for the minerals, the minerals themselves are neither free nor do they contain value, they are pointless. In this regard minerals are not free nor do they cost anything, they are irrelevant to anything without a purpose, ask the question again once you have not ill-defined the parameters in which you ask it, because under current parameters your question, is incomplete and has no answer and thus irrelevant. > > Factor in a usage for the minerals…maybe then you can determine how they are or are not free. If the mineral has no purpose afterward then your question is nullified as without purpose the value can never be determined. If you are looking for an answer, then you definitely lose. My ground rules stand. heres a hint: I asked for Proof, and it actually exists…its as simple as this entire OP Post of mine is simple, it is you making it complicated. Your answer/diatribe is invalid, you lose. ---
**Author:** ![Octoven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/octoven/32/403414_2.png) [@Octoven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Octoven)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/90 "2017-10-02T14:20:06Z")
Your ground rules invalidate your question but thanks for trying. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/91 "2017-10-02T14:21:50Z")
Ah ha, You are the first to be on the right track…maybe. Now provide Proof of what you say. Until then your answer is invalid. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/92 "2017-10-02T14:24:23Z")
If you believe that, then go gather them yourself instead of running around the constellation not gathering them. Your answer is invalid, you lose ---
**Author:** ![CowQueen\_MMXII](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cowqueen_mmxii/32/446332_2.png) [@CowQueen\_MMXII](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CowQueen_MMXII)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/93 "2017-10-02T14:27:18Z")
> [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > A player can roll a new Alpha character on an Omega acc No, they can’t. Alpha and Omega are account states which characters only inherit. > [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > the 1st free venture Isn’t free. it comes at the cost of doing the necessary career missions. > [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > a player can grind the necessary standings doing distro missions in no time flat for the 0 tax reprocessing ability. Grinding is a cost. “In no time” is a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/94 "2017-10-02T14:29:36Z")
You are close just like Mkint, The Proof you might be looking for though is much more simple… Everything you have said so far is large portion of everything i have gone through myself in creating this Post and arguing the way i do on this topic. as in Mkint, i will leave this alone for now…find me proof ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/95 "2017-10-02T14:31:30Z")
not trolling…i really have a point to this. Your answer is invalid you lose. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/96 "2017-10-02T14:32:39Z")
actually there is a way to not pay the reprocessing fee from the get go. Your answer is invalid, you lose. I asked for proof ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/97 "2017-10-02T14:33:55Z")
> [@Kerono\_Thalmor](#): > > You can also “gather” minerals by using a buy order to get them from the market This inherently states that you NOT gathering them, Nope, invalid, you lose. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/98 "2017-10-02T14:35:30Z")
So where is your proof? I asked for proof? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/99 "2017-10-02T14:37:23Z")
you started on a good foot there, But then let your CODE dogma get in the way… Your answer is invalid, you lose ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/100 "2017-10-02T14:39:10Z")
My answer is perfectly fine and valid. You owe me 1bil ISK. ---
**Author:** ![mkint](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkint/32/14424_2.png) [@mkint](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/mkint)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/101 "2017-10-02T14:42:24Z")
> [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > Now provide Proof of what you say Open a dictionary. Words mean what words mean. There is still only 1 argument in favor of “free.” And that is if you use a political definition of the word rather than an economic one. Minerals are free as in anyone is free to to attempt to acquire them. However, that definition of the word “free” is abstract to the point of uselessness. Really though, this entire conversation feels fundamentally useless. It’s about the definition of words, and was answered hundreds of years ago. Shoot, even Benjamin Franklin wrote on the subject as Poor Richard. Except his version wasn’t useless, because he went on to expound on value as well, how people spend time in ways that don’t confer value. Usually in this conversation (this is not the first time this conversation has been had, not by a long shot) it’s an attempt at trying to justify having wasted time (waste being where an expenditure does not confer an acceptable amount of value.) That’s where I start to explain to the (invariably) rookie and the (invariably) rookie he’s arguing with that neither isk nor time are the only things that have value. And given that this is a video game, it’s stupid to pretend either of those have ANY value that matters. But the whole quagmire of value vs cost has nothing to do with the question you asked. If the minerals cost you time, then they are not free. Period. Pretending words mean something other than what they mean suggests you are just a troll. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/102 "2017-10-02T14:48:05Z")
interesting… I have read each and every post up to this point 1 at a time. I will never concede the term “Time” as you are either playing the game or you are not. However, Effort, the base cost for everything in EvE to include things not covered by game mechanics is the correct answer. Wanda Fayne, you have provided a link that explains/answers the topic I am discussing, and serves to satisfy my only condition…show me PROOF. Your 1 Billion ISK will be deposited in your account soon as i log into the game. Remember everyone, its just a game, but its a World we players have built…Effort, without it EvE does not exist, we do not exist, see some of you at Vegas o7 ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/103 "2017-10-02T14:49:54Z")
I asked for proof, which someone finally provided. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769.md?page=6)