# How are minerals not free? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 1, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769 "2017-10-01T17:25:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![The\_AntiChrist666\_Diablo13](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_antichrist666_diablo13/32/35162_2.png) [@The\_AntiChrist666\_Diablo13](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_AntiChrist666_Diablo13)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/125 "2017-10-02T18:55:01Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > If you’ve had some sort of negative emotional response to this thread, maybe you should check yourself. > > It’s a dumb thread, but there’s no need to be upset or pissed off about it. It’s just words. you still don’t realize the purpose of this thread is to argue, not to get clarification on the subject, but to argue. (yellow autism \< 👶 )😹 ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/126 "2017-10-02T19:00:22Z")
> [@The\_AntiChrist666\_Diablo13](#): > > you still don’t realize the purpose of this thread is to argue, not to get clarification on the subject, but to argue. Sure it is. It’s a dumb thread. Still, there’s no need to have a negative emotional response to the point where you feel you have been trolled. It’s just not that important. But if you are reacting emotionally to the thread, just walk away. ---
**Author:** ![Zetakya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zetakya/32/169095_2.png) [@Zetakya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zetakya)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/127 "2017-10-02T19:04:25Z")
If you think Minerals are free then please contract them to me for 0 ISK. ---
**Author:** ![The\_AntiChrist666\_Diablo13](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_antichrist666_diablo13/32/35162_2.png) [@The\_AntiChrist666\_Diablo13](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_AntiChrist666_Diablo13)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/128 "2017-10-02T19:09:32Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > But if you are reacting emotionally to the thread, just walk away. How exactly was it emotionally the first post I made? And where was it the second one. You sure take mine in some emotion tho. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/129 "2017-10-02T19:10:55Z")
> [@The\_AntiChrist666\_Diablo13](#): > > How exactly was it emotionally the first post I made? > > And where was it the second one. > > You sure take mine in some emotion tho. You claimed the thread is trolling. Maybe look up the definition. ---
**Author:** ![The\_AntiChrist666\_Diablo13](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_antichrist666_diablo13/32/35162_2.png) [@The\_AntiChrist666\_Diablo13](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_AntiChrist666_Diablo13)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/130 "2017-10-02T19:17:02Z")
yes the trolling here is max deveron is pretending he is that dum, you’re an idi\*t ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/131 "2017-10-02T19:25:31Z")
> [@The\_AntiChrist666\_Diablo13](#): > > you’re an idi\*t And now you’ve proven his point, because that’s an emotional reaction. There’s no need to self censor the word, btw. Not only does the forum permit it, we all know what it means, so it’s silly. ---
**Author:** ![The\_AntiChrist666\_Diablo13](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_antichrist666_diablo13/32/35162_2.png) [@The\_AntiChrist666\_Diablo13](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_AntiChrist666_Diablo13)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/132 "2017-10-02T19:26:50Z")
.👍 (my prove came after, the logic over here…I’m out lol) ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/133 "2017-10-02T19:31:07Z")
You lack the distance to understand what you did. Calling him an idiot is an emotional reaction, even if you don’t notice due to the common disconnection people suffer from, when they’re active on the internet. Kthxbye. vOv ---
**Author:** ![The\_AntiChrist666\_Diablo13](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_antichrist666_diablo13/32/35162_2.png) [@The\_AntiChrist666\_Diablo13](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_AntiChrist666_Diablo13)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/134 "2017-10-02T19:32:12Z")
it’s okay dude 👍 ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/135 "2017-10-02T19:33:24Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/3/f/3f137d1123ce3bdf99ead39102170a01ee6d60ba.jpg) Accidentially replied to myself, instead @The_AntiChrist666_Diablo13 -.- ---
**Author:** ![The\_AntiChrist666\_Diablo13](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_antichrist666_diablo13/32/35162_2.png) [@The\_AntiChrist666\_Diablo13](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_AntiChrist666_Diablo13)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/136 "2017-10-02T19:37:06Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/a/8/a8941639bda3a2efcd6be40123e9084ddecc7c59.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![LouHodo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/louhodo/32/109593_2.png) [@LouHodo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/LouHodo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/137 "2017-10-02T19:45:56Z")
It comes down to basic economics. It is like saying in real life oil is free, once you get the overhead of the drills and materials out of the equation. With overhead of startup cost removed. Cost of ship and tools, you are looking at time. What is your time worth? If we were to break it down from a subscription base, 500plex = 1 month of play, 500 plex is what 1.5bil currently? We will go with 1.5billion per month or 30days. Which comes out to 50,000,000 a day. Or about 2,083,333.33 an hour. So if you figure mining is about 2mil an hour of work. Which means mining has a base cost of 2.08mil ISK per labor hour. On top of the market cost of the ore mined This is my answer. Time in EvE is ISK and ISK is time. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/138 "2017-10-02T20:53:05Z")
just wow, i had planned to not post until i saw the winner say something if anything at all. you people are just plain nasty to each other an this thread’s purpose is over so I have no clue what yall are still arguing about?? So if you wanted to know my ulterior motivation for this i will simply copy/paste from my in game mail albeit with a few changes to it… Ok, lets start with some ground rules… 1.) The question has nothing to do what you do with them afterwards. 2.) The question has nothing to with Plexing or paying RL cash for subs. 3.) The question is only in relation to actually gathering/acquiring minerals beyond initial investment costs to be able to gather them. (think really hard about this part.) 4.) any notions of opportunity cost have no place here, see point 1 above. I will personally give the person that can without a doubt **prove** minerals are **not free** to gather 1 Billion ISK. So lets begin… ## How are minerals not Free? You asked me [redacted]. I have [bolded] the realtive parts of what i was asking. From the beginning i asked to be shown proof minerals are not free, in this topic i never claimed that they were “free”. But many others assumed that is exactly what i meant and was after…no i was after the fact they were not free, The semantics is though, they can be “free” subjectively as opposed to ISK or opportunity costs. But the entirety of my post had a significant and hidden ulterior motive… Only 1 person took the time to take the “effort” to find and link me the “proof” i sought…effort. What is the point of playing EvE? Its not to make ISK, if you do not have a goal in mind? that goal requires effort. Be the best solo pvp pilot on record? effort Create and build an Empire? effort I can go on… The answer will always be “Effort” and "personal goals" otherwise, why play EvE? the game at its inherent core mechanical playability…is really not that intuitive or fun…until you add other players and their ideas/goals into the mix. **What can you achieve?** **Will you put in the “effort”?** **Can you afford that cost?** that is the point of my post, and 1 person out of everyone on that thread, just 1, not even the CSM guy, looked at what i wrote and provided Proof which just as easily could of been a link to some professors’ doctorate thesis that i would have had to spend time on to read. To be frank, i am to the point of asking those same 3 questions in bold every day now, because if i dont i will lose focus of my own goals and very likely quit playing, Effort… is it worth it? ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/139 "2017-10-02T21:25:06Z")
> [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > The semantics is though, they can be “free” subjectively as opposed to ISK or opportunity costs. Nothing ever is free. It’s an illusion. Subjectivity is irrelevant. The idea that something is “subjectively” free equals ignorance. If one ignores that time spent could be rather spent doing something else, which is more profitable, then you’d be correct. That still wouldn’t change the fact that … > [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > Ok, lets start with some ground rules… > > 1.) The question has nothing to do what you do with them afterwards. > 2.) The question has nothing to with Plexing or paying RL cash for subs. > 3.) The question is only in relation to actually gathering/acquiring minerals beyond initial investment costs to be able to gather them. (think really hard about this part.) > 4.) any notions of opportunity cost have no place here, see point 1 above. … nothing on this planet, done by anyone, happens in isolation. Therefore the above “rules” are irrelevant. There is nothing behind your request for proof. It’s a problem of the mind. Unless you realize the ignorance behind people claiming that minerals they mine are free, there is no way of proving that it’s not the case. The idea, that minerals one mines are free, is born out of intellectual poverty. Value is an illusion. Example: Fiat money only works, because lots of people believe in what some few say about pieces of paper and metal. They believe that pieces of paper and metal have a value, and therefore they “work”. If politicians decided to manipulate the public into believing that bottlecaps are the new currency, then people would believe bottlecaps have a value and abandon the colourful pieces of paper. It’s all just ideas and illusion, nothing more. ■■■■ your billion isk. It has zero value to me, or the real world. Some nutjobs being willing to pay real money for it doesn’t change anything about it. I don’t care if you offer one, five, or hundred billion isk. Worthless ■■■■. ---
**Author:** ![Sonya\_Corvinus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sonya_corvinus/32/12161_2.png) [@Sonya\_Corvinus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sonya_Corvinus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/140 "2017-10-02T21:42:42Z")
> [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > Would you care to elaborate? > > Because either you are playing the game or you are not. > > If you are not playing the game then your time here means nothing. > > Same with are you acquiring minerals or not. If not?.. > > If you do not care to elaborate if you are able, > > Then your answer is invalid and you lose. Cut down on the trolling kiddo. Time is the only thing that has any value, everything else is free, when you come right down to it. You know this, or you wouldn’t have made arbitrary rules. Thread reported for trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/141 "2017-10-02T21:58:47Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > Nothing ever is free the point of my OP, > [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > There is nothing behind your request for proof Effort Ty for validating my OP ---
**Author:** ![Vortexo\_VonBrenner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vortexo_vonbrenner/32/64874_2.png) [@Vortexo\_VonBrenner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortexo_VonBrenner)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/142 "2017-10-02T22:25:05Z")
Effort is subjective. “Worth it” is also entirely subjective. Seems you, OP, have gone through greatly convoluted mental gymnastics to simply pose a question to yourself that only you can answer for yourself. and can I have your stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Sol\_epoch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sol_epoch/32/379171_2.png) [@Sol\_epoch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sol_epoch)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/143 "2017-10-02T22:49:52Z")
As you stated in the ingame mail you sent me you already have the answer before posting the OP! As such you are just trolling or trying in some weird way to be relevant or smart which you are not! ---
**Author:** ![Wanda\_Fayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wanda_fayne/32/377654_2.png) [@Wanda\_Fayne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wanda_Fayne)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769/144 "2017-10-02T23:14:29Z")
I really am surprised that nobody else saw it…lol How many threads have I seen that have asked for “proof or it didn’t happen” or such. Hmmm, is my billion free? 😆 Will post screenshot of the wallet transaction when I get home. Proof. edit. ![Capture](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/b/5bfbdd7b5dc70f077d6babe9d410736b0864e1c2.JPG) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-are-minerals-not-free/28769.md?page=8)