# How can we best educate new players? **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [September 15, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109 "2022-09-15T18:55:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 12:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/46 "2022-09-16T00:31:33Z")
I’d be fine with that as long as once they clicked the button, they are met with a pop up button that says they’ve entered into an open PvP world where they consent to PvP as soon as they undock and can’t get past it unless they enter their account password 😃 ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/47 "2022-09-16T00:39:15Z")
Along with being locked out of the Rookie Help channel permanently. Let them beg for help in local or NPC corp chat. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/48 "2022-09-16T00:51:28Z")
I miss when NPC corp chat was lively. You actually used to get good advice. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 1:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/49 "2022-09-16T01:07:22Z")
New players seem to have an expectation that this game will cater to them like other new games. CCP trying to fill that expectation is the problem with a game whose mechanics were never designed for that. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 1:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/50 "2022-09-16T01:08:19Z")
I have no problem with a tutorial, especially for a game like EVE. However, it should reflect the realities of the game. Give them the tools to succeed, not the excuses to be a victim yennoe? ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 1:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/51 "2022-09-16T01:12:54Z")
Your efforts are valiant, but they’re still going to skip the tutorial and complain. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 1:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/52 "2022-09-16T01:14:59Z")
Add better incentive to the npe with a better reward at the end? ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 1:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/53 "2022-09-16T01:16:28Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > Your efforts are valiant, but they’re still going to skip the tutorial and complain. Oh I’m sure, but that’s why we need the disclaimer 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 1:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/54 "2022-09-16T01:21:42Z")
Back when i had my own corp, i would train newbies, ebmven though it was learning pve missions etc, i still also taught about the dangers of actual players and losses can happen etc ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 1:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/55 "2022-09-16T01:29:35Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > That’s why ganking is called non-consensual PvP. One could use that silly line of reasoning to argue that _nobody_ ‘consents’ to have their ship blown up. I don’t recall anyone asking me if I _wanted_ to be attacked at a 0.3 system gate camp ! This is _why_ the general consensus is that the very act of undocking constitutes consent. Otherwise every single attack in the whole of Eve other than agreed duels would be ‘non-consensual PvP’. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 1:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/56 "2022-09-16T01:41:38Z")
Naming an evil only gives it power. I was hoping the ISD gave him a 24 hr pacifier on the off chance someone could come up with a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 4:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/57 "2022-09-16T04:28:06Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > The NPE should include ganking and mining permits. @Mike_Azariah got very snarky with me Snarky? Me? perhaps. But I still disagree strenuously with your idea. Although the part about the > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > If they do not purchase the permit, NPC catalysts warp in and gank them. If they do purchase the permit, NPC catalysts warp in and gank them. In Does teach the newbies to NEVER pay mining permits as they will gank you anyways. That IS the lesson you are going for isn’t, princess? > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > I also think they should have missions where they lose the ship ala Kobayashi Maru style. There are two missions like that in the current NPE. m ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 4:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/58 "2022-09-16T04:31:30Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > I still disagree strenuously with your idea. > [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > Does teach the newbies to NEVER pay mining permits > [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > That IS the lesson you are going for You disagree with my idea, but think it will teach new players? So disagreeing with me is more important to you than teaching new players? Is it possible that your “snarky” attitude is preventing you from acknowledging a good idea? You stated my idea will “teach” new players an important “lesson”. I hope you take some time to reflect on why you “strenuously” oppose this, when you yourself concluded that this would help new players. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 6:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/59 "2022-09-16T06:56:47Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > There are two missions like that in the current NPE. There needs to be more 😃 The whole RP thing is ok, but I think it needs to reflect the reality of the game. If the NPE just teaches them to be victims, CCP is shooting itself in the foot. We want titans, not Stardew players 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 8:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/61 "2022-09-16T08:12:33Z")
I think also explaining to them a sense of scale, like how losing a Badger with 40m in its hold is not the end of the world, in fact its extremely easy to replace. Remember kids, the Ventures you get in Tutorials and Career missions are free! This is the only issue that was, at the end of all the arguing in the previous thread, identified as what made new players leave. If they knew that on an Alpha making that back in many different ways was pretty easy, then they wouldnt leave, they might toughen up a bit and not let setbacks turn them into quitters. You know, an RP corp that ganks crappy ships then replaces them with better ones might be a wizard wheeze for a bit. The Magic Ghoul Bus, if you will. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 8:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/62 "2022-09-16T08:52:30Z")
Very true. Or teaching them how to haul smart in the first place. I’m glad we can all agree in this thread that EVE is an open world PvP game 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 9:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/63 "2022-09-16T09:06:24Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > That certainly is an opinion some people hold, yes. How about _you_ define what constitutes ‘consensual PvP’ in the first place. At what point **is** ‘consent’ given ? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 9:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/65 "2022-09-16T09:20:37Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > This is the only issue that was, at the end of all the arguing in the previous thread, identified as what made new players leave. If they knew that on an Alpha making that back in many different ways was pretty easy, then they wouldnt leave, they might toughen up a bit and not let setbacks turn them into quitters. I came across a 1 day old noob who had been ganked in a 0.6 system. I explained ganking to him, and invited him to join a corp…where’d he’d get a free replacement Venture anyway if he got ganked. The guy joined the corp, got a whole bunch of ‘o7’ salutes in corp chat, and seemed to be settling in nicely and was being looked after, having moved to corp HQ where there is little miner ganking and there’s folks like me ready to zap any gankers. Then 3 days later I got a Concord notification that the guy had left Eve. Of course, people will all interpret this differently. I’ve just given the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 9:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/66 "2022-09-16T09:29:07Z")
Ok, but that doesnt mean he didnt biomass and restart now he knew more. I know I did. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 9:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109/67 "2022-09-16T09:31:48Z")
You did what you could. It wasn’t meant to be. My most recent effort was a few weeks ago, prepping a fun wormhole hunt session with some 10 holes bookmarked for sites and safes, organized comms, fitting ships for myself and a rookie who “really wanted to try this”. Literally while I was doing all this, he contacted me to let me know he would no longer play eve and would biomass. At least he did warn me up front (but after the work was done). That’s why I wrote earlier in the thread that it’s hard work that rarely pays off in terms of retention. If you believe in what you’re doing, you just plod on 🙂 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-can-we-best-educate-new-players/377109.md?page=4)