# How CCP could keep new players longer **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [November 28, 2022, 9:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366 "2022-11-28T21:45:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Brun\_Warbear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brun_warbear/32/380353_2.png) [@Brun\_Warbear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brun_Warbear)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 10:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/43 "2022-11-29T22:00:38Z")
You really need to try harder. This one was embarassing even for you. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/45 "2022-11-29T22:06:47Z")
Heh, whatever you gotta tell yourself bro. You making claims you can’t back, getting lost in your own sauce and can’t tell what you’ve said or not already. It’s hilarious 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/46 "2022-11-29T22:11:57Z")
> [@Brun\_Warbear](#): > > You really need to try harder. This one was embarassing even for you. i use to check the zkill of people that say PVP players are sociopaths to confirm my theory that all of them have zero presence there in your case i found kinda ironic the punching down line of your post and the fact the few fights you have you are in ships that cost more than 10 times the ship of your opponent i agree that pointing that on the forums is bad taste I’m not proud of it … i will try to improve in the future ---
**Author:** ![Brun\_Warbear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brun_warbear/32/380353_2.png) [@Brun\_Warbear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brun_Warbear)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/47 "2022-11-29T22:16:31Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > i use to check the zkill of people that say PVP players are sociopaths to confirm my theory that all of them have zero presence there Yes. The 10 year old character with 3 PvP engagements is definitely and for sure my PvP character. > [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > in your case i found kinda ironic the punching down line of your post and the fact the few fights you have you are in ships that cost more than 10 times the ship of your opponent With zero context for those fights, however, you’re pissing in the wind. > [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > i agree that pointing that on the forums is bad taste Only got yourself to blame for this one. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/49 "2022-11-29T22:20:25Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s scary how desperate you are. Go find someone else to troll. What troll the truth LOL. I get it, your gas lighting isn’t working and you know not what to do. Let’s us not pretend you care for the nubs. You’ve griefed nubs on this very forum 😃 > [@Brun\_Warbear](#): > > Yes. The 10 year old character with 3 PvP engagements is definitely and for sure my PvP character. Then drop your PvP char 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Brun\_Warbear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brun_warbear/32/380353_2.png) [@Brun\_Warbear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brun_Warbear)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/50 "2022-11-29T22:24:21Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Then drop your PvP char You drop my PvP char. Those aren’t even my most amusing lossmails. I have a lossmail for a 6 bill chimera on one character that I abandoned in a WH after logging in to find my old corp long-evicted that someone orbitted and plinked away at until it popped. I figured it was more amusing than self destructing. Someone got 15 minutes of content out of it. zKill doesn’t tell you ■■■■, and doesn’t mean ■■■■, and trying to use it to embarrass someone is always pretty telling. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 11:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/51 "2022-11-29T23:19:14Z")
Dude claims that highsec PvP is just sociopaths and baby seal clubbing. Gets called out on the forums for being hypocritical. Puffs out is chest and says that he is embarrassed not for himself, but for the guy that called him out. I love the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/53 "2022-11-29T23:50:59Z")
> [@Brun\_Warbear](#): > > You drop my PvP char. > Those aren’t even my most amusing lossmails. > I have a lossmail for a 6 bill chimera on one character that I abandoned in a WH after logging in to find my old corp long-evicted that someone orbitted and plinked away at until it popped. > > I figured it was more amusing than self destructing. Someone got 15 minutes of content out of it. > > zKill doesn’t tell you ■■■■, and doesn’t mean ■■■■, and trying to use it to embarrass someone is always pretty telling. What’s embarrassing is you making a claim then backing out of providing proof 😃 We all know you’re scared to drop your “PvP char” because its mostly likely your main 😃 Imagine being that scared in a vidya game. ---
**Author:** ![Brun\_Warbear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brun_warbear/32/380353_2.png) [@Brun\_Warbear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brun_Warbear)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 11:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/54 "2022-11-29T23:51:29Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > What’s embarrassing is you making a claim then backing out of providing proof What claim did I fail to prove? ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 12:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/55 "2022-11-30T00:21:21Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > noob thunderdome My first ever solo pvp fight ever, I won. In a T1-fit slasher. My opponent was, amazingly, ALSO in his first fight, in a T2 tormentor. I won, with like 5 minutes of 70 dps orbiting at 500m. Considering that almost every warzone pilot has hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands, of kills, the chances of this happening and winning are like 1 in 5000. Noob thunderdome would be a total blast. ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 12:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/56 "2022-11-30T00:23:20Z")
Someone has opened up a big can of salt with this one 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 12:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/57 "2022-11-30T00:23:48Z")
> [@Brun\_Warbear](#): > > What claim did I fail to prove? You claim your PvP char has a better record. So drop it 😃 But you won’t. You’re just hiding behind an alt talking yang 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 12:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/58 "2022-11-30T00:24:36Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > scared to drop your “PvP char” because its mostly likely your main uh oh… I hope that’s not a bad thing… my main is my PVP character. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 12:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/59 "2022-11-30T00:27:07Z")
As is mine. I didn’t even use zkills until I had to join RIFTA. I actually do not believe zkills is end all be all, and I’ve stopped using it because of the intel that can be farmed. However, he made the claim. But he isn’t going to “drop his PvP char”. They never do 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 12:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/60 "2022-11-30T00:30:10Z")
Flara Pediati is mine. Not much, but respectable for an Alpha who only plays like once a week due to school I think… Same account as Nujen. ---
**Author:** ![Brun\_Warbear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brun_warbear/32/380353_2.png) [@Brun\_Warbear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brun_Warbear)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 12:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/61 "2022-11-30T00:58:19Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > You claim your PvP char has a better record. So drop it 😃 Quote me. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 1:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/62 "2022-11-30T01:21:04Z")
ROFL. You’ll do anything and everything not to huh 😃 It’s ok bro. We get it. You’re scared 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 1:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/63 "2022-11-30T01:23:10Z")
> [@Brun\_Warbear](#): > > Quote me. > [@Brun\_Warbear](#): > > Yes. The 10 year old character with 3 PvP engagements is definitely and for sure my PvP character. Right there. Then again, pot kettle etc as I’m a posting alt. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 1:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/64 "2022-11-30T01:39:25Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Most MMOs lose most new players before or shortly after they log in for the first time. Nothing any game does can change that (or at least no MMO I know of has ever succeeded). This is much too defeatist. They all suffer player loss at various stages, but there’s a huge difference between losing say 50% in your first few hours vs. 80%. Different games have wide variance in their retention rates. [https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/qk2cq9/mmo\_launch\_player\_retention\_comparison/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/qk2cq9/mmo_launch_player_retention_comparison/) I believe this is primarily based on the different ways games handle three crucial early phases: - Letting players know what to expect from the game early on, then meeting those expectations. - Keeping the initial phases of the game (tutorial, starter missions) moving smoothly and giving a “taste” of what the game has to offer in the future. As opposed to getting bogged down in detail. - Helping players choose a direction/set of goals in the game and setting them on some sort of path to achieving that with measurable/impactful milestones along the way. CCP needs to break outside the standard approach they’ve used for tutorial/introductions. When you’ve re-written the NPE 10 times and never gotten it right yet, it’s time to think outside the box. Aisha’s post has the kind of thinking CCP needs: > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > Combining both the tutorial and the career agent stuff into one “simulated clone space” where people can look at different ship types/sizes/roles, take part in actually different scenarios. And then be able to return to that simulated space to try out new things, just dock up at your nearest AIR station and “plug in”: open to everyone, at all times. That may not be the exact solution needed (though it’s highly intriguing), but something like that where new players can get a taste of the different options in the game without feeling they’re swimming in a shark tank. Players do need to be strongly informed that the game **is** a shark tank, and even set them up to learn about it… but it doesn’t need to be that way in their first 5-10 hours. And once they’ve had a taste of what EVE has to offer, then I think it would be hilarious to do something like have them choose a path - miner, explorer, soldier, mercenary for example - and give them a decent ship they wouldn’t normally have (stolen barge, experimental astero, prototype navy cruiser, hijacked fighter) and send them out on a series of goals where they’re locked into “suspect” status. Tell them straight up - they’re being used as bait and will be hunted like a stray cat in a field full of Rottweilers. And give them progressive rewards for as many goals as they can complete before their proto-ship gets nuked. Let them experience the hunt as prey and once they get toasted, give them another ship and have them play the hunter side. You’ll still lose a lot of players, but the ones that make it through will have a much higher chance of sticking around. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 1:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366/65 "2022-11-30T01:49:52Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Players do need to be strongly informed that the game **is** a shark tank CCP used to do this: [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/7/c/f7c23739cd1614ffa59133b22459adc6bc07a380.jpeg "EVE Online: Causality") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGplrpWvz0I) For some reason (appealing to a larger audience which will have a far lower retention rate on average, short term income) they stopped doing this. I’ve said this before, they really should do some sort of “come try EVE if you think you’re hard enough” marketing. Not only will it attract more people looking for this, it would also lower the amount of “crying” and uninstalls from people who had no idea what they were getting in to, perhaps even easing them into it. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-could-keep-new-players-longer/386366.md?page=4)