# How CCP stopped me from playing my game style **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2023, 8:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059 "2023-08-22T20:03:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 8:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/267 "2023-09-06T08:04:13Z")
CONCORD is corrupt so it should be a fee of 100M per corp member per month to _not_ be war eligible. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 9:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/268 "2023-09-06T09:17:31Z")
> [@James\_Fuchs](#): > > Well, I have personally filed in a ticket once to have a ship returned to me, and they told me what exactly in the logs I had overlooked and because it was valid, it would not be returned to me. So, from my perspective, what you are saying doesn’t add up. Was it a PvE loss? > [@James\_Fuchs](#): > > How about, while keeping the current system, you allow corporations to set themselves as war eligible? > > Other corps could declare war on you at anytime and can also stop it freely, but let’s throw in a little cooldown like 1 day or 1 week before they can stop it again, and then you could potentially fight the entire universe without owning a single structure. All you have to do is make everyone angry enough. How does that sound? You can already invite groups to mutual wars, without needing a structure as a requirement. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Fuchs](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_fuchs/32/504955_2.png) [@James\_Fuchs](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Fuchs)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 9:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/269 "2023-09-06T09:29:12Z")
The exact details are rather hilariously embarassing, but I was CONCORDED while doing PvE, yes. Let me guess, it doesn’t count now because it wasn’t at the hands of a player, is that right? With lost regards -James Fuchs ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 9:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/270 "2023-09-06T09:33:32Z")
Yes. They pretty much direct you straight to the PLEX store in that case. You can’t get “griefed out of the game” through PvE, so they consider it fair game. Any non-consensual PvP loss will get you reimbursed. Gankers won’t get their ships back, players fighting in fleet engagements won’t get their ships back (unless there are provable server issues), but if you’re ratting in a low-sec belt and get jumped, they’ll pamper you. Even if you’re the attacker in many cases. Customer retention. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Fuchs](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_fuchs/32/504955_2.png) [@James\_Fuchs](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Fuchs)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 9:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/271 "2023-09-06T09:41:10Z")
… Do you have any proof of that? Any names of the GMs involved or screenshots documenting these exchanges? With exhausted regards -James Fuchs ---
**Author:** ![Arya\_Yeshe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arya_yeshe/32/397211_2.png) [@Arya\_Yeshe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arya_Yeshe)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/272 "2023-09-06T11:34:11Z")
> [@James\_Fuchs](#): > > How about, while keeping the current system, you allow corporations to set themselves as war eligible? Whoah! This is good, this is really good!!! Still, not different than the mutual wars… but hey, I guess it’s something 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/273 "2023-09-06T11:52:24Z")
> [@James\_Fuchs](#): > > … Do you have any proof of that? Proof is inherently anecdotal, since CCP unwisely refuses to share data with the players. However, it’s generally believed that CCP reimburses an exorbitant number of ships, although certainly not “all”. Several member of the CSM have observed that CCP fails to properly train the GMs, who often have little or no ingame experience. There have been several public examples, discussed widely on Reddit and in other forums. Consequently, there are people who file a support ticket on every loss, and if SRP isn’t approved they file another ticket and hope to get lucky with a different GM. I think it’s a pattern of players scamming the GMs, crying about non-existent server issues, and whining endlessly until the GMs cater to them. No different than people who go around getting free meals by complaining at restaurants. I personally know more than one person who intentionally lose items like blingy pods, so CCP will reimburse the implants and they can sell them. These individuals discuss what works on Discord, sharing tips on how to write a complaint in a manner which will trick the GMs. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/274 "2023-09-06T14:33:47Z")
> [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > - If you have an orca mining in a region, then any other corp that has an orca mining (or receiving boosts) in the same region would open a causus belli, the mutual war could start within a day and a non-mutual war could start within a week > > I would not tie wars to structure ownership only, but would also add the consumption of limited resources and region. > > People who mine in the same region would be able to have wars while having no structures at all, and so on, but if they move to another region then the war target would be invalid… so miners would have to run away and mine elsewhere or fight. But there is nothing stopping a corp from 50 jumps away from moving an Orca into your area, and declaring war. You could do likewise in return. So there really is nothing restricting this mechanism to ’ in the same region '. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/275 "2023-09-06T14:44:20Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Proof is inherently anecdotal, since CCP unwisely refuses to share data with the players. However, it’s generally believed that CCP reimburses an exorbitant number of ships, although certainly not “all”. Several member of the CSM have observed that CCP fails to properly train the GMs, who often have little or no ingame experience. There have been several public examples, discussed widely on Reddit and in other forums. Consequently, there are people who file a support ticket on every loss, and if SRP isn’t approved they file another ticket and hope to get lucky with a different GM. The real issue is how directly related to a server issue the loss is. For example, I had an Apoc re-imbursed…the only such claim I have ever made. I could and did argue that my loss was a direct result of getting separated from the fleet, which was a direct result of a known server issue CCP admitted existed. One could argue endlessly about how much gameplay has to occur ( or not occur ) between server issue and loss…but the key issue is the causal chain. Would the loss have otherwise occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Arya\_Yeshe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arya_yeshe/32/397211_2.png) [@Arya\_Yeshe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arya_Yeshe)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/276 "2023-09-06T14:54:26Z")
Haha, yeah, in EVE, pretty much nothing’s off-limits, right? I mean, good luck to the brave soul flying an Orca 50 jumps just to find the target docked and logged off. 😂 It totally clicks with me that competing corporations should have wars. Picture this: the Coca-Cola truck is dropping off drinks at the local distributor, and here comes Dr. Pepper to the same spot – bam, they can start a war right there LMAO And you know what? It’s not a big deal if people are on the move, running away, or chasing others. As long as everyone gets why the war’s happening, they’ll roll with it or get out I bet neighbors in the same system will either team up or tear each other apart. Those daily beefs? Well, this is their chance to let loose 😄🚀 💥 💥 💥 ---
**Author:** ![New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/new_order_enforcer/32/387867_2.png) [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/New_Order_Enforcer)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 9:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/277 "2023-09-06T21:11:25Z")
yes CCP reimburses gank loses. I am not sure if it was a policy during GM IceCream times or they keep doing it. [https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-explain-the-reimbursement-of-loses-part-2/](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-explain-the-reimbursement-of-loses-part-2/) ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 10:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/279 "2023-09-06T22:07:19Z")
> [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](#): > > yes CCP reimburses gank loses Which is totally absurd. No ship lost to legitimate PvP, where there are no server issues, should _ever_ be reimbursed. And by server issues I don’t just mean lag or tidi but things that physically prevent a player taking some particular action _at all_. In the case of my Apoc loss…the system was literally stuck and refused to respond, and CCP admitted a server issue. That’s a far cry from some badly fitted mining ship sitting there in a perfectly running system and being oblivious to gankers warping in. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Fuchs](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_fuchs/32/504955_2.png) [@James\_Fuchs](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Fuchs)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/280 "2023-09-06T22:35:16Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Proof is inherently anecdotal, since CCP unwisely refuses to share data with the players. However, it’s generally believed that CCP reimburses an exorbitant number of ships, although certainly not “all”. Several member of the CSM have observed that CCP fails to properly train the GMs, who often have little or no ingame experience. There have been several public examples, discussed widely on Reddit and in other forums. Consequently, there are people who file a support ticket on every loss, and if SRP isn’t approved they file another ticket and hope to get lucky with a different GM. > > I think it’s a pattern of players scamming the GMs, crying about non-existent server issues, and whining endlessly until the GMs cater to them. No different than people who go around getting free meals by complaining at restaurants. I personally know more than one person who intentionally lose items like blingy pods, so CCP will reimburse the implants and they can sell them. These individuals discuss what works on Discord, sharing tips on how to write a complaint in a manner which will trick the GMs. Thank you for weighing in, Aiko. I really do appreciate your level-headed responses, it’s always enjoyable to read them. I want to say, I may have been too dismissive of these claims. Because regardless if it is a rumor or not, it is damaging player’s trust in the administration. The whole crux of the game is that you can’t just get back what you lost. It adds weight to the victories you gain and the loses you suffer. You learn either way, and grow as an EVE player. **But** this assumes, that every player is treated equal. If your loses are replaced, my victories are hollow. If my loses are undone, they become meaningless. As such, I believe the administration really should communicate what’s going on and set the record straight. And having read the links and closing remarks from what @New_Order_Enforcer posted, I am not inspired with confidence. They seem to be doing pretty much the exact opposite. I don’t see any easy solutions from our end here. Perhaps this would be an issue that should be raised to our esteemed CSM candidates instead. You guys sound like you’ve already done this a few hundred times… but it can’t hurt to just try one more time, am I right? 🔥 💯 With reimbursting regards -James Fuchs ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 10:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/281 "2023-09-06T22:52:52Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > One could argue endlessly about how much gameplay has to occur ( or not occur ) between server issue and loss…but the key issue is the causal chain. Would the loss have otherwise occurred. I’ve never made a support ticket for lost ships due to server problems, mainly because I generally fly cheaper ships, but I’m sure there is an isk value which would motivate me. Regardless, a sound analogy is to compare this to real-world naval activity, where freak accidents and weather can cause a catastrophic incident. Consequently, I just anticipate this as an inevitability, and I think players who lose ships in tidi should take responsibility for the fact that they chose to expose themselves to obvious risk. Regardless, it does seem that CCP routinely reimburses ships for reasons which are not connected in any way to server issues (despite their explicit policy to the contrary), and that is bad for the game as it rewards people who try to manipulate the GMs. As I’ve said, I’m aware of people who compare notes on how to write a support ticket in order to get reimbursement, and that is certainly exploitive behaviour. I suspect CCP is compensating people, just like a restaurant or casino might do, giving away free stuff to people who complain - however, it is problematic that the SRP policy states this is not the case. There certainly seems to be a disconnect between policy and practice. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/a/3/9a34731027000ee39ca4002903796c32818d2cce.png) The game is often glitchy, especially when large numbers of ships are on grid, and I suspect inexperienced GMs conclude any anomaly constitutes a “server issue”, even when there is no evidence the issue affected anyone. This simply rewards people who complain, and indeed there are people who try to claim SRP on every single loss, making sure to include keywords which indicate common server errors, hoping that a GM will find evidence of such an issue (even if it was not apparent to anyone in game). > [@James\_Fuchs](#): > > regardless if it is a rumor or not, it is damaging player’s trust in the administration. Indeed, several people I’ve killed wrote me to say “f u, CCP gave me a new ship, hahahhaaha, eat \*\*\*\* and die” - I did file a support ticket, telling whatever GM bothered to respond that there are only two possibilities: 1) CCP is reimbursing ships for non-server related losses, giving an advantage to those who file spurious claims, or 2) these people are misrepresenting CCP’s policy, which makes the GMs look bad. I suggested, at the very least, CCP should make it a policy that reimbursed individuals should not subsequently gloat about receiving preferential treatment. > [@James\_Fuchs](#): > > an issue that should be raised to our esteemed CSM I’ve had extensive communication with several people on the CSM about a number of issues, and their unanimous response has been that they agree, but don’t feel CCP is listening or able to accurately analyze internal data. Frankly, I think it’s silly to expect unpaid volunteers to act as middlemen and rely messages back and forth, and it’s unfortunate that the devs have isolated themselves in this way. I don’t think there has been a dev willing to engage with the players since CCP lost Falcon. Of course, I can certainly understand why the devs don’t want to engage in a public debate, for the same reason that most other companies have withdrawn from their own forums. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 11:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/282 "2023-09-06T23:55:41Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > I’ve never made a support ticket for lost ships due to server problems, mainly because I generally fly cheaper ships, but I’m sure there is an isk value which would motivate me. Regardless, a sound analogy is to compare this to real-world naval activity, where freak accidents and weather can cause a catastrophic incident. Eve is unpredictable. I lost a Gnosis on the way back from asset safety collection at Podion, early last year.. But it was my own silly fault, because although I took great care to scout on the way in and at Podion, I became complacent on the way back and left out the scout. It was all annoying…but all totally fair. Lesson learned. A person has to actually experience _loss_ to learn any such lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 12:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/283 "2023-09-07T00:49:21Z")
> [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](#): > > yes CCP reimburses gank loses. Not just gank losses anymore. Pretty much any loss where it’s not evident that the player who lost the ship knew _exactly_ what they were doing/what would happen. As I mentioned before, they reimbursed a FW loss (that wasn’t even asked for, with the loser being the one who started the engagement). Another type of reimbursement I can confirm: random low-sec asteroid belt fight. They won’t even ask; they’ll just give you your ship back. Now, the caveat for all of this is that they won’t necessarily keep reimbursing you for every subsequent loss you take. I think after the first 2-3, they’ll be much more stringent in their evaluation of reimbursement petitions from the same player. But just getting reimbursed a few times for legitimate PvP losses is unprecedented. I remember losing a Daredevil to a CONCORD bug around 2005 or so (my criminal timer didn’t clear, even after a few hours). I filed a petition, and the GM told me to go eat ■■■■, in only a _slightly_ more polite manner. Another time I couldn’t dock a HAC in an NPC null-sec station because the game kept telling me the station was out of range despite the fact that I was sitting right on top of it and I got hot-dropped, and the GM’s reply was to laugh and tell me that their logs showed nothing. I never bothered filing a reimbursement petition again. ---
**Author:** ![Galaxy\_Pig](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/galaxy_pig/32/374625_2.png) [@Galaxy\_Pig](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Galaxy_Pig)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 5:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/284 "2023-09-11T17:04:27Z")
> [@Ash\_Beldrulf](#): > > You can not build items at a reasonable mark up and more because no brainers have flooded the market with way under valued items. This is the exact same song friends of mine were singing like 10 years ago. Ohhh, the woes of being a carebear… ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 5:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/285 "2023-09-11T17:43:19Z")
Oh woe to the bear… ---
**Author:** ![Phaade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phaade/32/390475_2.png) [@Phaade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phaade)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 5:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/286 "2023-09-13T05:03:58Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > If a 30,000-member EVE organization can’t deal with a 1-member organization declaring war on it through conventional ship combat means, and feels _so_ bullied that the only way it can fight back is by forcefully ending the war by gang-banging the aggressor’s war HQ with a null-sec-style blob, that speaks volumes more about the flaws of the 30,000-member group than it does about the game’s war declaration mechanics. Interesting, in reality such behavior would likely draw some response along the lines of preventing you from docking in any high security system in eve, if not being outright deemed a criminal and attacked on sight by faction police. Seeing as we can pay concord to not enforce law, why couldn’t an alliance pay the caldari to cast you into exile, or worse? ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 5:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059/287 "2023-09-13T05:05:30Z")
They are not stopping you from writing the letter for me. I really need it before the 4th. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059.md?page=13) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-ccp-stopped-me-from-playing-my-game-style/417059.md?page=15)