# How much sand in the Sandbox **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 19, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174 "2018-08-19T17:44:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/21 "2018-08-20T17:20:42Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > No. You don’t do the same thing over and over again. If the complaints on the Abyss have any value then they show that they can vary quite in difficulty and in spawns and players don’t feel like they’re doing the same thing over and over again. > > To then have a problem with different types of loot when it’s called a cache - it’s a can once it’s destroyed - only shows your ignorance on the content. I do play the content, and you said that you didn’t. Yet you constantly picking on people who say they don’t like something about the Abyss. Triglavians are the least lore supported feature in the game. There were no devblogs or anything about who they are in the story, why are they ‘precursors’, how are they connected to other races, why we fight them. So they named the can a ‘cache’ and I’m supposed to feel good about their lazy design, right? They could call some container a bank and give away ISK straight away if you shoot it, right? ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/22 "2018-08-20T17:24:39Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > I do play the content, and you said that you didn’t. Yet you constantly picking on people who say they don’t like something about the Abyss. Yes, I made a conscious decision not to step into the Abyss for now. Nothing wrong with that. Others should take it as an example of how to make good decisions instead of making a bad one and then complaining about it. And please don’t tell me that your entire thread is nothing more than an elaborate attempt at another whine on the Abyss. It’s like with the Incursions all over again. You suckers just cannot handle it and try to find every possible angle to get your failures sweetened. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/23 "2018-08-20T17:30:38Z")
Ha! That’s a good one too! 🕶 No, I was going to go into specifics of Sandbox/Themepark gameplay. It’s actually you who sway it to Abyss only every time. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/24 "2018-08-20T17:34:06Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > No, I was going to go into specifics of Sandbox/Themepark gameplay. It’s actually you who sway it to Abyss only every time. No, it was you who brought the Abyss into it, not me, sucker. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/25 "2018-08-20T17:38:13Z")
---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/26 "2018-08-20T17:39:02Z")
I did start with Abyss as an example of themepark play and presented sandbox example also, and some other examples too. And my opinion on each of them. And all you did was call others suckers, whiners and losers. You seem bitter and resentful to me, bucko. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/27 "2018-08-20T17:41:08Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > I did start with Abyss as an example of themepark play and presented sandbox example also, and some other examples too. And my opinion on each of them. And all you did was call others suckers, whiners and losers. You seem bitter and resentful to me, bucko. No, I’m calling you a sucker specifically, and I’m not bitter, but I’m laughing at you. I thought you were some CSM wannabe who got lost and ended up in GD by accident. Only now the picture gets clearer and I can no longer take you serious. 🤣 You just want to complain some more about the Abyss. It goes in one 👂 and out the other 👂. ---
**Author:** ![Wavemistress\_Moidel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wavemistress_moidel/32/211447_2.png) [@Wavemistress\_Moidel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wavemistress_Moidel)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/29 "2018-08-20T18:32:31Z")
To the OP if you turn a dessert into a beach it may become overcrowded, then what do you do? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/30 "2018-08-20T18:37:50Z")
> [@Wavemistress\_Moidel](#): > > you turn a dessert into a beach it may become overcrowded, then what do you do? Eat it? ---
**Author:** ![Wavemistress\_Moidel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wavemistress_moidel/32/211447_2.png) [@Wavemistress\_Moidel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wavemistress_Moidel)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/31 "2018-08-20T18:44:47Z")
Yeah on toast. Deserted regions may bloom once more. ---
**Author:** ![Rexxar\_Santaro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rexxar_santaro/32/420075_2.png) [@Rexxar\_Santaro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rexxar_Santaro)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/32 "2018-08-21T19:15:19Z")
![monte-kali-heringen-149](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/f/7/f7232b2b2aaba80e05a557f06f708eab5f047dd5.jpeg) > **[Monte Kali: A Mountain of Table Salt](https://www.amusingplanet.com/2015/09/monte-kali-mountain-of-table-salt.html)** > > Monte Kali is an unusual landmark in the small town of Heringer in eastern Hesse, Germany. It’s a spoil heap containing nothing but sodium c... ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 3:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/33 "2018-08-22T03:13:16Z")
@Rexxar_Santaro How much salt in the sandbox? 🤭 (Also wow I first thought it might just be some photoshopped meme but that is an actual thing. 😮 ) ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/34 "2018-08-22T05:58:25Z")
I’m ambivalent on the topic, but wanted to o7 you on a well written and well formatted OP. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 7:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/35 "2018-08-22T07:54:28Z")
> [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](#): > > @Rexxar_Santaro How much salt in the sandbox? 🤭 I thought I’d post something like “inb4 salty jokes”, but too late now. I happen to grew up near one of them hills. It’s a blast from the past. They once had a collapse of one of their tunnel systems, which caused a [5.6-magnitude earthquake in 1989](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebirgsschlag_V%C3%B6lkershausen) (and was registered globally). People occasionally disappear on those hills, because they wander off to unstable areas. One is only allowed to walk on the old parts of these hills as only these are considered stable. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/36 "2018-08-22T08:38:45Z")
That’s the point, I’d say I’m also ambivalent on that. I didn’t want to say sandbox was good and themepark gameplay was bad. Only that they should be thoughtfully interconnected. Can’t say I have an established view on that, which Whitehound demanded me to present. I just think shallow and isolated gameplay is bad. Too independent of the rest of the game. Doing it you feel disconnected. Not impacting enough. Meaningless. Starting the topic in GD specifically I wanted the matter to be discussed to maybe come up with some better thought through view. Among other MMOs I played (for about 6 months) I always remember ArcheAge wormly. It is a sandbox hybrid open world game, with vast variety of professions and ‘tools’. But it also incorporates themepark dungeons smoothly. It does have some critical flaws which is why I stopped playing. But it is quite unique with Gliders, Farm Wagons, Ships, Cars, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/37 "2018-08-22T09:10:49Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > I just think shallow and isolated gameplay is bad. Too independent of the rest of the game. You’re the kind of person who dips a toe into a swimming pool and then decides they don’t like water. You’re like this cat: ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/e/0/e009f3c73a0216a41519b57379332870248d03fd.gif) “Do I like bathtubs? … No! Bad, bad, bad, …” ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/38 "2018-08-22T09:40:17Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > You’re like this cat: I like this cat 😄 Hey, man, what is your point on the topic? You keep attacking me personally, and you may be right. I may be contradictory. I’m not here to defend PhD paper or something. We’re in GD, it generally means we’re here to discuss, not troll and shut off. Tell me what is your view? This new (since 5 years, or even last years) PVE? Do you play it? Do you like it? Do you consider it sandbox gameplay? Do you think themepark gameplay in a sandbox game is good? ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/39 "2018-08-22T09:41:32Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > Hey, man, what is your point on the topic? You keep attacking me personally It’s not an attack. I like you just as I like the cat above, but I don’t see you having a point here. You’re just worried over nothing and you really shouldn’t be. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/40 "2018-08-22T09:53:00Z")
But I do see a problem with new PVE, which looks themepark to me, and I’d like to figure out is it the gameplay or something else which causes the problem. Because as I said I tried it all, and I like the gameplay, but it feels isolated, detached from the rest of the game, and meaningless. Like, for example, I loved running RW sites, I am going at some point run it to collect all of the faction SKINs, but aside from that it’s meaningless, if you don’t collect SKINs you lose both time and ISK in this activity. And devs openly admitted it was abandoned on release. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 10:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174/41 "2018-08-22T10:05:09Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > But I do see a problem with new PVE, which looks themepark to me, and I’d like to figure out is it the gameplay or something else which causes the problem. There is no problem here. You’re creating an artificial problem much like a debate between meat vs. vegetables. Unless your doctor tells you that you have a specific health problem with a certain type of food can you eat both. Your entire argument then doesn’t even look at the actual content, but you only sling around phrases, which get used in those artificial debates. For example do you call it shallow. Are you saying every successful Abyss runner, who managed to overcome the difficulties, who write guides and make videos about it, are playing with shallow content? Do you think you’re being fair to them or realistic in your assumptions? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-much-sand-in-the-sandbox/99174.md?page=3)