# How to defend against people who hunt miners? **URL:** \ **Category:** PvP Ships & Modules\ **Created:** [November 25, 2024, 8:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217 "2024-11-25T08:10:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/130 "2024-11-28T10:16:11Z")
> [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](#): > > Right auto pilot makes you an easy target but not always a worth while one. Normally you have more than enough time to cargo scan them to find out. Just rolling the dice is them being lazy. Sad part is so many people do auto pilot carrying enough loot that they still go positive just hoping for a good roll It was funny the first week after CCP released the “Legion” missiles. 120 million ISK worth of auto-targeting cruise missiles showed up as 85 billion worth of cargo. Hence the Tornados. Oops, hehe. If I’d wanted to be cruel I could’ve trolled my hauler for days on end… ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/131 "2024-11-28T10:16:26Z")
Right. But that was my point earlier about needing to make a combination of changes to get the result ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/132 "2024-11-28T10:17:33Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > That would kill JFs. Nobody talked about Industrial Cynos. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/133 "2024-11-28T10:18:31Z")
> [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](#): > > Right. But that was my point earlier about needing to make a combination of changes to get the result I’m just not convinced that it was necessarily a good thing in the grand scheme of things. Sure, certain groups went cuckoo for cocoa puffs over it… ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/134 "2024-11-28T10:18:50Z")
Lol i had a similar interaction when hams were added. I was in an alliance that had been Parma war decked for over a year by different groups. I brought out a scorp navy and pretended to rat then obliterated a prot that the day before would have had no issue against a torp or cruse battleship. We both wound up having a good laugh ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/135 "2024-11-28T10:20:16Z")
How do you figure? Before we had largely homogeneous hs. Where you couldn’t really go anywhere to escape being ganked by code. Now we have a gradient of less risk vs more convenient. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/136 "2024-11-28T10:20:41Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Nobody talked about Industrial Cynos. I’m kind of opposed to the “cyno” thing as a whole. I mean, NPC stations don’t exactly move. Shouldn’t they have the jump coordinates by now? ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/137 "2024-11-28T10:21:59Z")
> [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](#): > > How do you figure? Before we had largely homogeneous hs. Where you couldn’t really go anywhere to escape being ganked by code. > > Now we have a gradient of less risk vs more convenient. I honestly could care less about Code (Safe, etc.) If players tanked their ships properly I could make out like a bandit on harvesting all the salt from their tears. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/138 "2024-11-28T10:22:35Z")
Right but what’s the downside to the current state? ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/139 "2024-11-28T10:24:24Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Nobody talked about Industrial Cynos. Then combat rorquals would be a thing 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/140 "2024-11-28T10:24:43Z")
> [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](#): > > Right but what’s the downside to the current state? If I had to name one, it would be that Amarr space has kind of turned into a ghost town. The Amarr market is definitely not what it used to be. I don’t know what effect (if any) this had on Minmatar or Gallente space. Is that good? Maybe it’s been great for the die-hard local residents. But I left with no plans to return (ever). And this is me maintaining a foothold in both Amarr and Caldari space for years. I’m sure I’m not alone… ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/141 "2024-11-28T10:27:33Z")
Right but that “ghost town” is the good thing. If you don’t like it that’s not a bad thing. Caldari space is more populated. But now there is a section of hs for players/groups that do prefer less crowed space. If all of hs was a ghost town then yeah, that would have been bad. But it’s less than 1/4 as the regions of Amarr by the fw ls still see a fair amount of traffic ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/142 "2024-11-28T10:27:48Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Then combat rorquals would be a thing Is that a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/143 "2024-11-28T10:27:58Z")
> [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](#): > > We do this… all the time. T3 gangs are far more oppressive than cynos. Especially in ls. > > If your whole gang got wiped your fc screwed up. A cyno can generally only catch 1 maybe two ships and that’s only if they managed to catch you off a gate. > > And again when it comes to blops the fight starts before we’re shooting at you. > > That said their are entire blops doctrines built around escalating to a larger fight not just a quick gank and spank. It’s what the t3 blops fleets excel at. We used to have a ham loki fleet that was specifically built around the idea of harassing and getting a response fleet to come at us Proves my point entirely. You are part of a group that can easily escalate, even tries to escalate deliberately. Your group (at least this char) is part of a 300 man alliance, also part of a FW milia. That is explicitly _not_ the content that is suffering from cynowafare. It’s the dozens of 10-30 player groups that simply vanished, that never had interest in escalation and blobbing, just looked for good fights in the 3-10 numbers range, no blue standings to anyone, just roaming around and brawling it out. This was possible without cynos, it isn’t with them in their current form. If you want to have your larger fights, your escalations, your doctrine battles with reinforcements waiting: nobody is hindering you. A cyno delay won’t hurt you at all if the opponent can bite and wants to bite, he will still bite. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/144 "2024-11-28T10:29:35Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Then combat rorquals would be a thing 😕 Nobody drops combat rorquals on a small gang. They simply can’t hold anything. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/145 "2024-11-28T10:31:33Z")
I’m merely saying that if instant jump is removed from anything but indus, then combat rorqual can still be used for instant jump. Good or bad, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/146 "2024-11-28T10:32:13Z")
The group i was doing this in was 8 active players. Black rabbits is just a fw alliance we tend to be on the receiving end of snuff cynos lol. We also didn’t have the ability to escalate. We had 5-6 lokies+hunter. Once we dropped that’s all we had until we fought our way to a system it was safe enough to bring the blops into. (This was before the blops buff so they couldn’t really defend themselves if caught) I’d love to do that again but it’s the sort of thing that requires quality of pilots not quantity. We’d often be fighting 5-10x our number. Edit I’m also not happy with the blops buffs they needed something sure. But the redeemer is now far too versatile and has way more dps than it should. The sin went from niche to a joke. The panther is chill and the widow has a bit too much tank. Burst cycle time per level would have been better than 4% resists ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/147 "2024-11-28T10:35:36Z")
Can’t it also bridge the new upwell haulers? I’d be more worried about them ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/148 "2024-11-28T10:39:44Z")
> [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](#): > > The group i was doing this in was 8 active players. Black rabbits is just a fw alliance we tend to be on the receiving end of snuff cynos lol. > > We also didn’t have the ability to escalate. We had 5-6 lokies+hunter. Well, then _maybe_ you are the one exception that doesn’t justify to keep a crappy system in place. to satisfy “8 active players” but make thousands leave the space… isn’t a good deal. I always hear those tales, “Yeah we really hoped there would be a huge response fleet, but _the others_ didn’t want to fight us!!!” - and in the end 12 BlackOps killed a Vexor. And unfortunately you can’t even find such “good fights” with BlackOps on those corp’s killboard. Thus why they have a 99% kill to loss ratio. Sorry, I am old enough not to belive that stuff any more. Maybe there are a handful exceptions, maybe you are even one of them. Screw it, if you are as good and as ambitious as you seem, you will have no problems finding other content. You don’t need that BO mechanic. And the others don’t deserve it. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217/149 "2024-11-28T10:44:58Z")
It’s not all that uncommon. Most dedicated blops groups have a doctrine like this. We weren’t some guineas group that thought of it on our own. But yeah the problem is eve is a game where fights need to be forced. You’re never going to get perfectly balanced 1:1 duels in a dynamic sand box. And good players aren’t going to take a losing fight. Cynos are just one way to attempt to force a fight. They are far from the most common or most effective. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-defend-against-people-who-hunt-miners/469217.md?page=8)