# How to fix the bot problem and make people happy **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 18, 2018, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876 "2018-08-18T10:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/367 "2018-09-05T13:09:43Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Even CAPTCHAs are being solved by bots these days. CAPTCHA is nothing compared to an EVE-client internal, randomized, morphing, interactive and dynamic list of minigames. Browser based bot/crawler tests are restricted by the browser environment, EVE internal tests are not. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/368 "2018-09-05T13:17:37Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > CAPTCHA is nothing compared to an EVE-client **internal** , **randomized** , **morphing** , **interactive** and **dynamic** list of minigames. Are you using these words like buzz words? 🤣 Anyhow, I need to ask, what happens when a player fails to get past your test? ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/369 "2018-09-05T13:18:09Z")
We vaporize him. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/370 "2018-09-05T13:21:23Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Anyhow, I need to ask, what happens when a player fails to get past your test? They get a new one, of a different type. As long as they keep failing, they will be unable to give commands to their ship. After repeated failures, say 5, the issue gets ticketed to GMs to investigate the player by contact. The minigame popup will not occur while a ship is at risk of explosion, and should not take more than 5-10s for a present human to solve. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/371 "2018-09-05T13:23:11Z")
I think the new fob did a decent job against highsec barge bots CCP did another on market bots IDK how but they did.The ratting bots take alot of spotlight some changes to anomalies are long overdue ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/372 "2018-09-05T13:23:14Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > As long as they keep failing, they will be unable to give commands to their ship. > … > The minigame popup will not occur while a ship is at risk of explosion … So I just use two bots shooting each other and none of them will get these popups? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/373 "2018-09-05T13:28:13Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > So I just use two bots shooting each other and none of them will get these popups? “Thats already been answered. Scroll up (to another thread) or are you too lazy”. How do you like that? Some of your own medicine? Its fking hilarious you expect me to answer your questions, when you repeatedly refused to do so to mine. Suck it up, my little buttercup. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/374 "2018-09-05T13:37:27Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Thats already been answered I’m saying that I don’t think it’ll work. Stopping players from playing their game until the pass a test is only annoying. Sending a mail to GM because somebody failed their test is going to produce countless false alarms by players who get frustrated with it. As I said before, will you have a better chance at detecting a bot by how much more successful it is at passing your test than by how often it will fail it. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/375 "2018-09-05T13:39:54Z")
If you cant pass the tests I propose in a few seconds, you are too stupid to play EVE, and Hello-Kitty is more your niveau, **or you are botting.** Youll get a minigame popup only after extended play, bout once an hour, and only when you are not in jeopardy. You can fail them as often as you want, but it will lead to GM attention eventually to check you are present and not a bot failing, They are trivial compared to a can hack, and bots cant handle those either. I hack even hard cans in less than 20s. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/376 "2018-09-05T13:51:51Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > If you cant pass the tests I propose in a few seconds, you are too stupid to play EVE, and Hello-Kitty is more your niveau. > > Youll get a minigame popup only after extended play, bout once an hour, and only when you are not in jeopardy. > > They are trivial compared to a can hack, and bots cant handle those either. It won’t work. The simplest solution would be to raise an alert and let the player solve the puzzle for the bot. Another solution is to create a situation, which brings the ship in danger so that it suppresses popups. This already gives a botter the chance to run the bot for several hours with very little effort. Throw in some more work and you can let the bot solve most tests, alert the user when it’s too hard or just pretend to be a failing human being, and your idea has been rendered useless. At the same time are you however annoying players and the game gets a laughed at for its popups. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/377 "2018-09-05T13:55:50Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > At the same time are you however annoying players and the game gets a laughed at for its popups. In a F2P game, as EVE now is, having to solve a minigame once per hr after extended play and/or repetitive commands is not a big deal, for the benefit of protecting the games balance and economy, Its feasible a botter could keep another botted client periodically activating flags on the miner/ratter, but that too should be detectable in the long run if CCP has appropriate algorithms crunching data to produce flags for CCP staff investigation, or outright auto-ban if consistent beyond reasonable doubt, pending appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/378 "2018-09-05T14:07:49Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Its feasible a botter could keep another client periodically activating flags on the miner/ratter, but that too should be **detectable** in the long run if CCP has appropriate algorithms crunching data to produce flags for CCP staff investigation, or outright auto-ban if consistent beyond doubt. Like I said before, don’t change the game for botters, use hidden detection, which the botter cannot see and so cannot fight. Then make a game for players, make it fun so there is less incentive to cheat. It solves more than one problem. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/379 "2018-09-05T14:10:38Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > use hidden detection, which the botter cannot see and so cannot fight. Explain specifically and concretely what you mean by this. Also propose what could be implemented to enact this “hidden detection”, in case that wasn’t clear as implicit above. (And again, I made the fking mistake of thinking you will answer a simple, direct question on your claim/position. Maybe this time you will finally deliver.) ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/380 "2018-09-05T14:20:28Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Explain specifically and concretely what you mean by this. A test like a CAPTCHA or a mini-game is visible. A visible test needs to be implemented on the client and thus a bot can access details about it simply through reading the screan, reading a processes’ memory or parsing the network traffic (after it has been decrypted by the client). Hidden means it doesn’t take place on the client, but on the server. A bot then cannot know what it is the server is looking for, unless someone at CCP leaks the server code. This forces the botter to guess and produces far more problems for the botter than for CCP. What exactly CCP is looking for is then a secret and left to your imagination. But some things have already been mentioned, such as input speed, online times, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/381 "2018-09-05T14:22:08Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Hidden means it doesn’t take place on the client, but on the server. What concrete “hidden detection” systems should be implemented to do so? Three examples would be reasonable. > [@Whitehound](#): > > online times I covered this in the 2nd point of my 3 pronged strategy. Why did you not support it? ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/382 "2018-09-05T14:26:05Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > What concrete “hidden detection” systems should be implemented to do so? > > Three examples would be reasonable. No. I’m not going to give details or just what I think would be good as a test. I don’t know what CCP currently does and you need to understand that I have no interest in interfering with their work or just guessing at what it is they do. I don’t want bots in EVE, and talking about how they might already be detecting them can only feed those who want to make bots. But I can tell you about a different idea I had. Using something like Project Discovery, only with player patterns, and letting players detect bots in a fun way and give rewards for them. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/383 "2018-09-05T14:26:53Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > No. I’m not going to give details or just what I think would be good as a test. Ok. So you’ve got nothing of substance to offer. Instead you make vague claims with no support behind them, and troll the proposals of others. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/384 "2018-09-05T14:28:11Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > So you’ve got nothing of substance to offer. Exactly. I have no interest in doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/385 "2018-09-05T14:29:12Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Exactly. I have no interest in doing so. No. Its not that you have no interest in doing so, its that you dont have anything to offer. Just facile waffle, with no substance. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/386 "2018-09-05T14:29:43Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > its that you dont have anything to offer. Exactly. No offer here. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876.md?page=18) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876.md?page=20)