# How to fix the bot problem and make people happy **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 18, 2018, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876 "2018-08-18T10:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/633 "2018-09-18T18:17:09Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > You two belong to each other. I vote to give them a private forum. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/635 "2018-09-18T18:19:47Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > I vote to give them a private forum. I vote to give you and your one-liners your own private forum. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/636 "2018-09-18T18:23:15Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So to be entirely clear, you only have one single figure you keep referring back to, and you can’t provide a source for this information? I’ve told you 3 times now that they are public. Do your own homework or send me isk to do it for you. Its astounding that you even engaged in this discussion without knowing they exist, let alone having read them, which you did neither of. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Prove it. Check the stats. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Except of course that it’s not even the biggest issue right now and certainly hasn’t been throughout the history of EVE. I think you missed a bit of your sentence, it’s the biggest issue **to you**. This is isnt about me. Its about EVE. Nothing harms players/EVE/CCP more than botting/RMT/account hijacking. They are **illegal** for very good reasons. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Ship balancing is a pretty big in-game issue, far bigger than bots. These are not contradictory. CCP can fight bots better, which effects everyone in EVE, whilst addressing ship balance which only effects those that use those ships. CCP can walk and chew gum at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/638 "2018-09-18T18:51:27Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > it’s not even the biggest issue right now Ecm nerf \> botting No one cares about bots anyway ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 8:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/639 "2018-09-19T08:26:08Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So no, you can’t provide a source for your information, ergo it’s likely made up just like the rest of your “facts". They are the public Security Team reports. You can find and read them yourself. They are not “made up”. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > To be honest it sounds like you’re just bad at the game and made at everyone that isn’t, so you accuse them of botting I only accuse botters of botting, not everyone. Im only mad at botters, and those that cover for them. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 8:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/641 "2018-09-19T08:35:57Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Of course, you would say that since you’re trying to pass off made up or at the very least wildly misrepresented stats. You’re the one using them so the onus is on you to provide them. IF you refuse to do so it can be safely assumed you’re a liar. Q3 Security Team report: > **[Security Update - Q3 2018 | EVE Online](https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/security-update-q3-2018)** > > Check out this dev blog from Team Security that gives an update on the ongoing fight against bots and RMT. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I just disagree with your view that there’s a bot epidemic in EVE Fine. You think there isnt. I think there is. What constitutes an epidemic, as magnitude/frequency of instance, varies. Menningococcal infection rate of over 15 per 100k, in two weeks, is classified an epidemic. Report shows 3.3k botters banned, so average of 1.1k per month. Also shutting down 115 RMT groups on social media. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 8:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/643 "2018-09-19T08:50:02Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So where in there does it say that they are doing 1000/month every month and indicating they are at their limit? Since that is your claim… The rate is stable across all quarterly reports. From this you can deduce either that Security Team is working at max capacity and cant handle more, or that there are only ~1.1k botters to ban per month. The former is far more likely than the latter. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yup, that’s how it works, people’s opinions differ. Yes. But yours was uninformed, as you had never read the Security Team reports, or even knew of their existence. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Oh, so now it’s an average? Ive consistently said they ban that amount on average per month, and that is concretely supported by the stats you still have not read. The report is issued quarterly, not monthly, thus a monthly average can be calculated by dividing the total of 3 months. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/645 "2018-09-19T09:04:06Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Why is it? The team don’t only deal with bots and there are likely variances elsewhere, Investigating botting, RMT and account hijacking, each depletes time/resources individually, as time not spent investigating another or further incidences of each. You dont seem to grasp that time/resources are finite. That the report figures remain largely the same per quarter, shows that the team is going full out with what it has and cant exceed this current result without additional resource investment. They show the 2 staff team are working as hard and fast as is humanly possible with what resources/time they have at their disposal currently. **Or are you suggesting they are slacking on the job?** > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > As stated before I’ve seen these reports and even spoken to the devs. I wanted you to link it because I knew you were misrepresenting an average and wanted you to post it so there could be no claims that I’m picking the wrong information Thats a lie. You didnt know they existed, and had not read them. Even if you are speaking the truth, you claimed my figures where “made-up”, which you must then have known to be a false claim. IE: You are dishonest in either case. The monthly average over all available Security Team reports for bot bans, is a steady 1-1.1k/month. You can do the math yourself. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > No you haven’t, your statements have made the claim that they consistently do 1000 per month without stating it’s an average That is a false claim. If I omitted the term “average” at any point, it was an unintentional oversight. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Absolutely, so you don’t know whether there’s other factors in different months, you’re just making a wild assumption Its a calculated average, as dividing the total bans over a quarter. Unless you think they made ALL the bans just the night before the quarterly report is issued. An annual average can also be calculated, once these reports have run over several years. * * * You are also still failing to understand, deliberately or not, that botting, RMT and account hijacking all feed into each other. Botting provides the isk/mats/PLEX to RMT. Account hijacking provides accounts to botters and isk/mats/PLEX to RMT. RMT provides reward for botting and account hijacking. CCP wrecked a mindboggling 115 RMT groups in the last quarter alone, and they havent got started proper on Ebay/Amazon yet. Where/how do you think these groups got their products to sell via RMT? If you dont think that shows an epidemic in EVE, I can only conclude you are in cahoots with botters/RMT/account hijackers, and trying to bury the issue and this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 10:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/647 "2018-09-19T10:10:38Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > This is literally you making up guesses to fit the conclusion you’ve already decided must be true. I know the average remains largely constant, quarter after quarter. That means either there arent more to ban, or team is at max capacity. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I did know it was a false claim. So you admit to lying and making false claims about me, deliberately. That is a ■■■■ move, man, and incredibly disrespectful. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > That doesn;t mean they are working themselves to the bone trying to squeeze in as many bans as they can and only achieving that. They are doing exactly that. Ofc they are working at 100%. Anything less, would be slacking. They need more investment from CCP in staff/resources to do more and keep ahead of illegal player actions that harm us all, the game, and CCPs bottomline. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/649 "2018-09-19T10:52:18Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Or they have set targets, or any number of other behind the scenes reason You can speculate on that, but the numbers are largely consistent, quarter after quarter. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I baited you because you’re trying to dodge having to provide specifics. You deliberately made false claims. You are the the one that dodged the existence of the reports, not I. You flat out lied. You are a liar. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Respect is earned and you’ve earned none. From a self-confessed liar, that means nothing. Do you think you have earned respect by lying? Its the inverse. Youve earned disrespect by your own actions/choices. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > See, this tells me you’ve never worked in tech, like at all. It’s not slacking to work less than 100% because any team working 100% will rapidly burn out and will also have no capacity to handle emergency work All employees of all companies are expected to work at 100% efficiency. You dont get hired to only do 50% of the job. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Prove it. Lets say CCP hired a third staff member to the Security Team. Do you not agree that would increase the amount of illegal activities the team can address per quarter? Do you also not agree, that dropping the Security Team to 1 member, instead of 2, would atleast half its output? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/651 "2018-09-19T11:34:08Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Which means nothing. Again, look at the Q2 Where CCP themselves specificalyl say they shifted focus **away** from bots. So what? That then ofc affected the resources put toward engaging botting, and are implicit in the average for that quarter. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Sure did. Needed to, to get a straight answer. It’s a tactic that works quite well on kids. You admit to lying and dishonesty. Im a 37yr old man, not a child. The “tactic” you used is one used only by the dishonest. Thats on you. Not me. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Unlike you, I don’t care. You may not care that you lied. But that earns you only disrespect. I have not lied. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > False. All employers expect a 100% effort. I, as a nurse in training, also cannot do just 50% of the job Im employed to. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You seem to have an overly simplistic idea of how a security team operates. Presenting that adding more staff would increase output, and decreasing staff would reduce it, is a matter of objective fact. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/653 "2018-09-19T11:50:16Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > If they were 100% you’d expect to see the number of bots banned drop, yet they didn’t. So what efficiency % is the 2 staff Security Team working at then? What evidence do you have for your %? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > That’s worrying. You still behave like this at 37? I didnt deliberately lie and make false claims. **You did**. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > No, they really don’t. As a registered nurse in training, I am expected to deliver 100%. Any less would jeopardize the well-being of my patients, and lead to remedial action on my part. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It just doesn’t work that way in anything other than mundane jobs. You can claim that adding a third staff member to Security Team would not increase output, and removing one from the existing 2 member staff would not reduce output, all you want. Atm, there are two staff members policing a 30k/day PCU. Your claims are ridiculously false and just again shows how dishonest you are. You will lie and lie, over and over, to hide your complicity. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/655 "2018-09-19T12:11:02Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I don’t know Ofc you dont. Instead you just pretend to and cant answer when asked. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Nothing wrong with making false claims There is everything wrong with making false claims, especially deliberately. Making a false claim is, de facto, **wrong**. Its called **lying**. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So 100% of the time you are working flat out, every day? Yes. 100%, everyday and every second. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It really depends on the behind the scenes processes and the way the existing staff members and/or new staff members work. More staff is more time/resources. Less staff is less time/resources. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s funny how rapidly you are giving up on trying to actually support your points and repeatedly attacking me. My points are already supported, proven and explained in this thread. You, however, have only lied and trolled. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/657 "2018-09-19T12:24:16Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > ? I seroiously hope I never have to end up with a nurse like you looking after me. Again with the lies and bullcrap. I said I deliver 100%, all day, everyday, yet you claim thats not good enough for you. Would you prefer a nurse that only does 50%? I can tell you, flat out, those exist as well. They lie and cut corners, much like you here. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Nothing wrong with that under the right circumstances Lying is always wrong, and always falsifying the truth. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yes, in a mundane job. The Security Teams job is mundane. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > They aren’t though. My stats are correct. My estimate of 10k botters over a month I cant prove, but all others are a matter of fact as shown by the Security Team quartely updates that ypu either didnt know about/had read, or lying to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 12:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/659 "2018-09-19T12:45:27Z")
Its clear @Lucas_Kell had a vested interest in botting/RMT/account hijacking. Only a criminal would go to such extents to obfuscate the extent of the problem, and their own complicity in that, by lying, as he has admitted he has. Criminals will habitually lie and falsely protest their innocence, by any means, till the end, and that is what he is doing here. He thinks even his admitted lying is justified. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 12:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/661 "2018-09-19T12:51:17Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > outright lie You did that, not I. I have not lied, even once. You have, by your own admission. Nor have I insulted the Security Team by stating they are operating at 100% capacity with limited resources. You insulted them by claiming they do not. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 12:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/663 "2018-09-19T12:58:16Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So you don’t think it’s insulting to say the security teams job is mundane? Weird. What job isnt mundane? You are again conflating/lying. You made the claim they are not operating at 100% tens of posts before you ever mentioned the term “mundane”. Ive said they are working 100% since the start. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 1:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/665 "2018-09-19T13:12:27Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Most jobs that require any level of skill aren’t “mundane”. Check the dictionary definition of “mundane”. The word doesnt mean what you think it does. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yes, because they won;t be operating at 100% because to do so would be bad. You’ve basically said their job is ■■■■, they require no skills and they just churn out bans constantly. That’s significantly underestimating the level of understanding required for a job like that. Registered Nurse license a is 3.5years Bachelor Degree, with several work practices in the field. The requirements and obligations are enormous. If you dont work at 100% all the time, someone can be permanently harmed or even die. You claiming the CCP Security Team is not operating at 100% is insulting and accusing them of slacking on the job. Ive maintained throughout that they are operating at 100%, and cannot do more without more resource allocation. They are doing their best, yet the same average of bans keeps popping up, quarter after quarter. I seriously question the motives of anyone that argues CCP should not add a third member to the Security Team. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 1:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/666 "2018-09-19T13:24:48Z")
That moment when you compare a nurse to a person looking at reports of _bots_… smh ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876/667 "2018-09-19T13:27:46Z")
> [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > That moment when you compare a nurse to a person looking at reports of _bots_ … smh Im both. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876.md?page=29) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-fix-the-bot-problem-and-make-people-happy/98876.md?page=31)