# How to get more people to play eve online? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 29, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343 "2019-10-29T20:50:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/147 "2019-11-07T12:04:18Z")
Lol, you’re actually talking to one. Yea we still got members, but that too is a disappearing trade with every decade… Should come back once the apocalypse hits tho 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 12:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/148 "2019-11-07T12:15:31Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > Go play Candy Crush, then. ➕ > [@Verlyn](#): > > You idiot. 🤭 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 12:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/149 "2019-11-07T12:27:35Z")
> [@Kaivarian\_Coste](#): > > Reducing the power gap between newbies and veterans would be a GREAT start. No-one’s going to wait 3+ months to train skills just to participate in PVP. Maybe buff the T1 hulls as well. I don’t think it would be best to reduce the power gap. Veterans have paid for their power levels (through one mechanism or another), they don’t suddenly need to see new accounts receiving boosts that make them a competitive force. Some form of segmentation or tiering of challenges faced would work better. New players simply should not be competing directly against people with 80M+ SP the minute they step out of the tutorial. New players would have more fun and find it more engaging to have at least some areas where they can compete against people at roughly their own level. This is less of an early retention issue, and more of a “okay, this player stuck it out for the first 2 weeks, now what draws him further into the game?” issue. If a newer player flies around high sec trying to get in to the game, and is constantly being scooped by Jackdaws and Gilas and Tengus and Orcas and Retrievers and Machariels, a few of them will look at that setup, then look at the skill training process, and say “Okay I’ll sub for 6 months to get in to those things”. But many more will just put the game down and try a different one. ---
**Author:** ![Induce\_Deadline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/induce_deadline/32/418955_2.png) [@Induce\_Deadline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Induce_Deadline)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/150 "2019-11-07T12:28:42Z")
Well this thread went down the drain quickly. Please stop trading insults, it won’t help you “win” whatever it is you’re advocating for so quit being edgy. One of the areas I hope will bring a lot players in is the Korean localisation CCP have almost finished. With the acquisition by Pearl Abyss and the access to the Korean market they provide, i have my fingers crossed for the future. The Koreans love their video games. Get the NPE right whilst retaining the current players and bringing in the Korean market, we _could_ hit 40k+ again… who knows! ---
**Author:** ![Induce\_Deadline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/induce_deadline/32/418955_2.png) [@Induce\_Deadline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Induce_Deadline)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/151 "2019-11-07T12:36:02Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > I don’t think it would be best to reduce the power gap. Veterans have paid for their power levels (through one mechanism or another), they don’t suddenly need to see new accounts receiving boosts that make them a competitive force. So i disagree here. I’m a big null seccer, but I’d personally like to see the skills gap reduce. In most MMOs you can reach endgame and compete in pvp within a month or 2… In Eve some ship fights will be years away for a newbie, that’s incredibly punishing and it asks a lot of a new player in terms of continued sub payments to reach that point. I’d be all for way more new player SP giveaways to close the gap, maybe get them competitive in subcap pvp within 2-3 months. Maybe as much as 10-15m SP given to newbies but drip fed over time. Vets have the acquired wealth to show for their time and effort. Let’s not try to suppress new players so we can feel superior in all areas of the game. We need catch up mechanics if we want the newbies to stick around. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/152 "2019-11-07T12:40:23Z")
> [@Induce\_Deadline](#): > > but I have to jump in here and correct you. At present the biggest source of ISK generation is in high sec and wormholes, to give you an idea: A shame that virtually every MER ever published proves you wrong. Perhaps a reality check would serve you better than pulling some numbers out of thin air and claiming they are the new status quo. > [@Induce\_Deadline](#): > > I’m advocating a design direction that both brings in new players as well as retains the old. Make high sec, null sec, WHs and the NPE all compelling to the various types of player they are aimed at. Don’t nerf the NPE or null or WHs and expect those pilots to stay. Agreed that bringing each region up to a more interesting playability balance is the way to go, not nerfing into sameness. However the idea that “Null sec remains compelling” by making it a 500M ISK per hour farming zone actually _does_ hurt high seccers, because it means they can never really be competitive in the game without moving to null or becoming trade bots. Make null interesting and worthwhile to play in, sure. Continue to make Null the primary “join the donut and farm your face off” zone, not so good. > [@Induce\_Deadline](#): > > I’d be all for way more new player SP giveaways to close the gap, maybe get them competitive in subcap pvp within 2-3 months. Maybe as much as 10-15m SP given to newbies but drip fed over time. Well sure, that would be best. When I said don’t reduce the power gap, I meant more that higher levels of SP shouldn’t be penalized in some way, nor newer players given some sort of bonus out of the gate, to simply ‘reduce the SP/gear gap’. Because what newer players need is actually a progression path that helps them develop their play skills and find a competitive role within the game. “Newer players gaining skills faster through active” is a slightly different issue, which absolutely _should_ be in the game. EVE has far too many passive, “just sub and click here a few times and log off for a week then come back” mechanics. The long boring tedium of working your way up through the ISK grind, the SP grind, the gear grind is probably what turns off most potential Omegas. However even if you gave players the ‘3 daily random tasks for SP’ mechanic for SP earning that I’ve referred to elsewhere, or the “SP bonus for achieving certain goals” mechanic, you would still have the issue that when the new players go out to _achieve_ those objectives, they are directly competing against people with SP, ships and gear that are way overpowered for them. So “give newer players a faster and more active growth path” is definitely a useful approach, but there still is that “encourage them to grow by progressing with other players closer to their own level” element which is missing. ---
**Author:** ![Induce\_Deadline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/induce_deadline/32/418955_2.png) [@Induce\_Deadline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Induce_Deadline)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/153 "2019-11-07T12:54:26Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > A shame that virtually every MER ever published proves you wrong. Perhaps a reality check would serve you better than pulling some numbers out of thin air and claiming they are the new status quo. Ok, so yes you’re right, but you’ve missed my point. I’m referring to acquiring ISK through pve and the fact high sec pve allows you to acquire more ISK than null. For instance, rorqs happen to be one of the things people complain about the most when referring to null sec wealth, but they produce 0 ISK, it’s the value of the ore which is important - I made my isk through running 3 rorqs. What I’m saying, which is 100% correct, is you can earn more ISK in high/wormholes than null. My numbers are totally accurate and I can prove it: T5 Abyssals in high for 800m/hour: [Twitch](https://www.twitch.tv/lokival_the_nub/clips?filter=clips&range=7d) L4 mission runner in high for 600m/hour: [Twitch](https://www.twitch.tv/hateless_gaming/videos) Incursions for 600m/hour: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G4JLgg5GWI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G4JLgg5GWI) C5 dreads for 3b/hour: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fujQNeLPd8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fujQNeLPd8) Null cannot touch those numbers. Not a lot of high sec players have 3 accounts as they tend to be less hardcore than null and way lower in SP, so you don’t see as much of it going on, but as someone who has personally shifted from rorq mining to triple boxxing T5 abyssals in assault frigs from the safety of high (no more risking 24b of rorqs!!) I’m making a ■■■■ ton more ISK than I did mining. Now if you want to balance the MER then see my other topic, I think this is best achieved by reducing null isk bounties (ratting), wormholes commodity values and introducing new ISK sinks (faction caps which cost 100b+ liquid ISK - sell just 10 of those a month and you’re MER is balanced - watch how quickly null would unfuck the economy if the trig dread cost 100b liquid, so much isk would leave the economy). ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 1:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/154 "2019-11-07T13:01:53Z")
Every time they release the numbers, I ask myself the same question: “Why can’t they just reduce bounty payouts a bit?” ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/155 "2019-11-07T13:08:00Z")
> [@Induce\_Deadline](#): > > What I’m saying, which is 100% correct, is you can earn more ISK in high/wormholes than null. Saying it’s ‘possible’ is irrelevant. Since you’re referring to people triple-boxing in endgame activities you’ve just limited yourself to saying “3% of the EVE audience might be able to pull this off”. Your numbers show what is theoretically possible for a small subset of players. The MERs show what actually happens. You don’t base game design changes on what the 3% of ridiculously OP characters can do. You base them on what 2/3 of the player base can do, and then add in some limits to balance the extremes. > [@Induce\_Deadline](#): > > Now if you want to balance the MER then see my other topic, I think this is best achieved by reducing null isk bounties (ratting), wormholes commodity values and introducing new ISK sinks 100% agreed. As Xeux just said, it gets harder and harder every month to see these imbalances and watch CCP do nothing about them. I suspect they already have a good idea that reducing payouts would lead to a lot of people saying “Hey, I’m totally used to earning 600M ISK per hour as my minimum. Now that I can only earn 400M per hour I’m just gonna unsub. Sorry CCP, you broke the game.” ---
**Author:** ![Induce\_Deadline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/induce_deadline/32/418955_2.png) [@Induce\_Deadline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Induce_Deadline)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/156 "2019-11-07T13:17:54Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Saying it’s ‘possible’ is irrelevant. Since you’re referring to people triple-boxing in endgame activities you’ve just limited yourself to saying “3% of the EVE audience might be able to pull this off”. > > You don’t base game design changes on what the 3% of ridiculously OP characters can do. You base them on what 2/3 of the player base can do, and then add in some limits to balance the extremes. It’s way more than 3% of players doing it. That’s the key difference between rich and poor in this game, most null players run multiple accounts and a good proportion of high sec too. You get out what you put in, people are flocking to big ticket high ISK activities to acquire wealth and most of those are in high sec or wormholes atm. You can never balance those activities against someone in high sec using 1 account who is ignorant of things like T5 running or Incursions (or too frightened or lacking the effort to try them). With that said, the ISK/hour for a single rorq pilot in null is only 120m which is still lower than running a single gila in T5s in high so it is balanced on the single account level - which has been a good design direction. Add in some isk sinks, null bounty nerfs and wormhole commodity reductions and we’d be good, although you will see more and more null migrating to high as has been happening recently. Going back to my original posts though, what I’d like to see is the cyno change reverted, give me and other null players like me, a reason to resub our cap accounts. Embrace all playstyles, no need to bicker as to whether high or null deserve buffs/nerfs, all activities should be equally RESPECTED and have equally COMPELLING design changes/updates. High sec are carrying a persecution complex without realising how good they have it at present. There is a reason null seccers choose high for acquiring ISK now. ---
**Author:** ![Kaivarian\_Coste](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaivarian_coste/32/413759_2.png) [@Kaivarian\_Coste](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kaivarian_Coste)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 1:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/157 "2019-11-07T13:59:37Z")
> [@Induce\_Deadline](#): > > T5 Abyssals in high for 800m/hour: [Twitch](https://www.twitch.tv/lokival_the_nub/clips?filter=clips&range=7d) > L4 mission runner in high for 600m/hour: [Twitch](https://www.twitch.tv/hateless_gaming/videos) > Incursions for 600m/hour: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G4JLgg5GWI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G4JLgg5GWI) > C5 dreads for 3b/hour: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fujQNeLPd8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fujQNeLPd8) Wow! Those are insane numbers! ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/158 "2019-11-07T14:07:08Z")
I know, right? 600M per hour on L4 missions? I must be doing it wrong. Still, I’m not sure arm wrestling the poster over those numbers is worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 2:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/159 "2019-11-07T14:28:32Z")
Yeah, that figure is likely for burners specifically rather than level 4 missions in general. Personally I make more blitzing level 3’s for LP in a RHML Raven than running level 4’s. ---
**Author:** ![Crash\_888](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/crash_888/32/357008_2.png) [@Crash\_888](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Crash_888)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/160 "2019-11-07T16:07:52Z")
eve classic: red moon rising ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/161 "2019-11-07T17:03:55Z")
This thread in short: 1. WAAAAAAH high sec isn’t 100% safe mindless PvE farming at maximum ISK/hour, nerf all highsec PvP so I can farm more. 2. WAAAAAH I can’t drop my capital blob on everything, EVE isn’t fun unless I’m multiboxing capital PvE farms and making more ISK in an hour than many players will ever have. 3. WAAAAAH EVE costs money, how dare CCP charge for subscriptions and not make everything free as a charity service. 4. WAAAAAH EVE isn’t an instant gratification game where a new player can do endgame content within a week, it’s _not fair_ that I have to invest effort into building something and make long-term plans. Thank god some of you are not game developers because your ideas are terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Induce\_Deadline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/induce_deadline/32/418955_2.png) [@Induce\_Deadline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Induce_Deadline)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/162 "2019-11-07T18:44:12Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > I know, right? 600M per hour on L4 missions? I must be doing it wrong. Still, I’m not sure arm wrestling the poster over those numbers is worth it. You are doing it wrong then. 200m per account no problem. Literally click the Twitch link I posted for you and watch his old vids, in particular his “100b challenge” where he tripple boxxed burner L4 missions and made 100b in a month at a rate of 600m/hour. You really shouldn’t be so ignorant of the potential of high sec when you’re calling for null nerfs. High is where the best ISK can be made. It is terrible for ore though, high miners need a buff. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/163 "2019-11-07T18:52:56Z")
Where did I call for null nerfs, bruh? ---
**Author:** ![Induce\_Deadline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/induce_deadline/32/418955_2.png) [@Induce\_Deadline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Induce_Deadline)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/164 "2019-11-07T18:53:21Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > This thread in short: Agree in terms of the major concerns expressed in this thread. Disagree that it should be perceived as crying. If players are discontent then a better design is needed to deliver an enjoyable experience else players will unsub and find a more fun game. ---
**Author:** ![Bloody\_Larry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bloody_larry/32/151459_2.png) [@Bloody\_Larry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bloody_Larry)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/165 "2019-11-07T19:57:13Z")
> [@Induce\_Deadline](#): > > No it’s not, the topic is how to get more people to play Eve Online. My idea is to bring back some of the players lost (7k drop since late May - just as the HAW cap nerf happened): > > [https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility](https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility) > > The game has hemorrhaged a ton of null sec players and, with less sand in the null sec sandpit, it doesn’t feel as active which will only compound the problem. Remember it can take years for a new player to graduate from high to null, there is a long tail to keep null populated. CCP shouldn’t be risking losing all those null subs through constant null nerfs (HAW, cyno changes, blackout, sleeper invasion). > > The point I’ve made in numerous posts is to incentivise both newbs and vets alike, keep both playing / staying. If you purely focus on the NPE you’re going to lose more subs than you bring in from new players, we’re seeing that in the Eve Offline stats. Happy to stand corrected. Makes more sense now. ---
**Author:** ![Bloody\_Larry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bloody_larry/32/151459_2.png) [@Bloody\_Larry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bloody_Larry)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343/166 "2019-11-07T19:59:32Z")
> [@Induce\_Deadline](#): > > > I don’t think it would be best to reduce the power gap. Veterans have paid for their power levels (through one mechanism or another), they don’t suddenly need to see new accounts receiving boosts that make them a competitive force. > > So i disagree here. I’m a big null seccer, but I’d personally like to see the skills gap reduce. In most MMOs you can reach endgame and compete in pvp within a month or 2… I used Skill Injectors to catch up. And yes, the cap did stop me. I still make the odd mistake, but I do ok generally. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve-online/198343.md?page=9)