# How To Handle 'PvE Only' **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 30, 2022, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418 "2022-10-30T15:16:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 1:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/327 "2022-11-02T13:44:12Z")
Running a marathon is unpleasant, you die a thousand deaths and it’s greatly uncomfortable. It’s also an achievement, something to aim for and improve upon. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/328 "2022-11-02T14:03:14Z")
> [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > Yeap, thats my point! > > In the past a newcomer grindy player could grind that ISK doing generic stuff for 20-30 hours for the PLEX and maybe save some ISK. Now a newcomer would need +100 hours. I’m still flabbergasted by how dumb the general populace must be to think that grinding in a video game for 20-30 hours (not _playing,_ but _grinding_) in order to avoid paying a $15 fee is a better use of their time than going out and working a full-time job that would, in the same amount of time, make them about $500 _just at minimum wage,_ allowing them to purchase that subscription while still having $485 left over for other things. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > I totally agree. And its about whether one survives by just sitting in dock or by going out and taking risk. People seem to want that ’ I am a survivor’ feeling without ever _doing_ anything that would have put their survival at risk. Medals merely for attending. An anecdote: I play a lot of survival games (I mention this often). Some of them have “safe zones,” which are basically areas where you have your stash, some NPC vendors for trading, etc. In most of these games, the grand majority of players _very rarely_ actually leave those safe zones. Most just sit near the vendors, picking up scraps that the real players discard, and talk smack. It’s kind of funny to watch. These people lay claim to being elite open-world, full-loot PvP, survival game players, but don’t actually do anything of note or interest. It reminds of occasionally encountering people who brag about playing EVE and therefore being elite gamers because EVE is such a difficult, dangerous game, and then I look them up and they turn out to be high-sec miners with nonexistent kill board records. Yet to outsiders, they will present themselves as powerful, respected fleet admirals. ---
**Author:** ![Tzashrah\_Praankar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tzashrah_praankar/32/354043_2.png) [@Tzashrah\_Praankar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tzashrah_Praankar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/329 "2022-11-02T14:23:08Z")
Bots if EvE were to go pve-only: ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/2/d/5/2d5d97df94468decdf3dc54362be7c00fe6eefd1.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/defi_natalie_notanalt/32/352557_2.png) [@Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Defi_Natalie_NotAnAlt)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/330 "2022-11-02T14:23:53Z")
Yeah I suppose so. I don’t know of many games where the main aim isn’t entertainment though, and I certainly don’t know any that get a lot of support. If EVE is supposed to just be a challenge rather than an entertainment product then it’s both built wrong and marketed wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/defi_natalie_notanalt/32/352557_2.png) [@Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Defi_Natalie_NotAnAlt)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/331 "2022-11-02T14:27:54Z")
Nothing stops bots doing that now. I’m sure bots will be configured to evade hostile actions so the existing PvP won’t impact them much. If bots are avoiding getting banned by the devs then they will be making profit whether there’s PvP or not. ---
**Author:** ![Tzashrah\_Praankar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tzashrah_praankar/32/354043_2.png) [@Tzashrah\_Praankar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tzashrah_Praankar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/332 "2022-11-02T14:30:59Z")
Some people find overcoming challenges to _be_ a large part of what makes a game entertaining. Those are the folks the niche game of EvE once appealed to. Don’t fret, you are getting your way. ---
**Author:** ![Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/defi_natalie_notanalt/32/352557_2.png) [@Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Defi_Natalie_NotAnAlt)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/333 "2022-11-02T14:42:50Z")
Yeah absolutely, I love a challenge in a game myself. But the game still has to be entertaining, it can’t just be built around what’s most challenging regardless of entertainment factor. Was EVE ever really that? Sure, it’s a fairly tough game with a lot to learn, but the challenges all seem to be “know about stuff” to me so far and from what I’ve been told. I’d say that seeing people able to control 10 characters at one time indicates it’s not _that_ challenging, otherwise controlling just one would be hard and controlling 10 would be impossible. I can’t imagine playing 10 copies of Super Meat Boy at the same time for example. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/334 "2022-11-02T14:45:25Z")
> [@Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](#): > > Yeah I suppose so. I don’t know of many games where the main aim isn’t entertainment though, and I certainly don’t know any that get a lot of support. If EVE is supposed to just be a challenge rather than an entertainment product then it’s both built wrong and marketed wrong. Your ‘arguments’ are so utterly ridiculous. That’s what ultimately comes from being endlessly contrarian. You are straining at a gnat to swallow a camel…as the old saying goes. Every time I go mountain climbing ( one of my pastimes ) one of the most quoted phrases among friends on the trip is ’ no gain without pain '. We know its going to be a hard and unforgiving slog. And dangerous too ! But the sense of accomplishment at the summit is amazing. Heck, people have died doing even some of the lesser hills…but at least they tried. Your absurd notion that something cannot be both challenging _and_ entertaining is just pure nonsense. Millions partake in events that are just that…and many games are also of precisely that nature. Eve is one of them. So stop trying to wreck it just because _you_ cannot cope with challenge…and stop trying to pretend you are doing so on anyone else’s behalf. ---
**Author:** ![Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/defi_natalie_notanalt/32/352557_2.png) [@Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Defi_Natalie_NotAnAlt)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 2:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/335 "2022-11-02T14:50:32Z")
I didn’t ever say that a game can’t be both challenging _and_ entertaining, I said that a game that is “an unpleasant experience to play” seems to be badly designed. So calm down. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/336 "2022-11-02T14:54:20Z")
> [@Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](#): > > I said that a game that is “an unpleasant experience to play” seems to be badly designed. If _you_ find Eve an unpleasant experience to play…and we are solely talking about _your_ entirely subjective experience…then stop playing it ! Problem solved. Next issue… ---
**Author:** ![Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/defi_natalie_notanalt/32/352557_2.png) [@Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Defi_Natalie_NotAnAlt)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/337 "2022-11-02T15:05:06Z")
Are you even reading the thread? Those were not my words. Ramona said EVE is “so unpleasant an experience to play”. I was responding to that, so direct your ire at her. You get so worked up by other people having different opinions that now you’re having a go at me for something said by someone you agree with. You even quoted her saying it and said “I totally agree”. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 3:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/338 "2022-11-02T15:15:25Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > If _you_ find Eve an unpleasant experience to play…and we are solely talking about _your_ entirely subjective experience…then stop playing it ! I find EvE to be very pleasant. Warts and all. I just don’t understand people that continue to play something they hate, and then complain about how much they hate it and what they think needs to be done to improve it. Sunk cause fallacy? Has to be. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 3:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/339 "2022-11-02T15:15:48Z")
EVE would be much more entertaining and pleasant to play if CCP entirely got rid of mining. Seed the markets with NPC sell orders for ore/minerals, problem solved. That way both PvE and industry can remain intact, and if players want minerals, they have to train combat skills and do combat PvE to earn ISK to buy them, instead of “playing” screensaver simulator for 10 hours at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/340 "2022-11-02T15:44:41Z")
> [@Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](#): > > I didn’t ever say… I responded directly to what _you_ actually stated…which was not a quote from anyone else and did not contain a quote from anyone else. It is rather dishonest to pretend otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Arya\_Yeshe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arya_yeshe/32/397211_2.png) [@Arya\_Yeshe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arya_Yeshe)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/341 "2022-11-02T15:46:47Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I’m still flabbergasted by how dumb the general populace must be to think that grinding in a video game for 20-30 hours (not _playing,_ but _grinding_) in order to avoid paying a $15 fee is a better use of their time than going out and working a full-time job that would, in the same amount of time, make them about $500 _just at minimum wage,_ allowing them to purchase that subscription while still having $485 left over for other things. It’s not the time for judging them, we need this moment for recognizing that there’s a lot of people on this in EVE and there will be in many games if they have same options. We don’t know their background story in real life or their motivations for playing. It’s important recognizing this so we dont delude ourselves about how to bring back a big population in EVE, so we dont delude ourselves about which changes will help, changes like this won’t help but will cause more problems: - removing tether to low security status will help player retation and bring people back - removing low sec piracy will help in bla bla - etc Do you get it? It’s time for recognizing where the disease is and what it is, instead of killing certain styles of gameplay. The real problem has nothing to do with game mechanics, PvE and PvP systems and mechcanis in EVE are fine, they are not the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/342 "2022-11-02T15:50:31Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > I just don’t understand people that continue to play something they hate, and then complain about how much they hate it and what they think needs to be done to improve it. Sunk cause fallacy? Has to be. Alas, someone who simply cannot cope with a game will never admit that the problem actually lies with them. It will always be the fault of the game. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/343 "2022-11-02T16:01:39Z")
> [@Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](#): > > I’m no game design expert, but isn’t it a bad thing for a game to be an unpleasant experience to play? not really there is a game called the long dark , survival , super unpleasant to play its a blast because you fell super rewarded wen you beat the challenge ![Captura de Tela 2022-11-02 às 13.00.55](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/9/a/99acf2865f7363e1d00efa50f6c0d76e9830753b.png) ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/344 "2022-11-02T16:13:15Z")
There are different types of challenges, and different people prefer different types. I have never heard of “Super Meat Boy”, but it looks like a side scroller that requires a fair amount of dexterity correct? I personally am not interested in games where the primary challenge is dexterity. Likely the case of being older, and I fear, slower than I once was. I do love games that have complex levels of data to manipulate, and require fast decision making based on experience and large amounts of data. I also prefer games that have loss penalties, so it feels like something is on the line. EvE has all these factors. I have seen videos of people using scripts to control dozens of EvE accounts to gank someone. It does not look like it is that hard, dexterity wise, to do that, although it does look like it would require a lot of set up, and require both patience and quick decision making to pick the target and then act. I’ve tried to get my son to play EvE with me. He is not interested, saying that EvE is too much work, and it is boring at the same time. He prefers games like Fortnight. There are different types of challenges. Not everyone likes every type. EvE is supremely entertaining to me. If you don’t think it is entertaining @Defi_Natalie_NotAnAlt that is fine. We should not ruin what other people enjoy in a game though, in the pursuit of making it in something that we like though. ---
**Author:** ![Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/defi_natalie_notanalt/32/352557_2.png) [@Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Defi_Natalie_NotAnAlt)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 4:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/345 "2022-11-02T16:18:05Z")
I was replying to this post: > [@How To Handle 'PvE Only'](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/323): > > I dont actually usually advocate a “get with the program or get out stance”, but… If people think EvE is a game you can succeed at, or compete in, or rise to the top at, they should quit. EvE is about surviving. Thats why its so unpleasant an experience to play. I didn’t feel the need to quote the post I was replying to, and didn’t expect someone to lose their temper, insult me and tell me to leave the game. Clearly I’m at fault for your misunderstanding and your outrage, so I apologise. Let’s move on. ---
**Author:** ![Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/defi_natalie_notanalt/32/352557_2.png) [@Defi\_Natalie\_NotAnAlt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Defi_Natalie_NotAnAlt)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418/346 "2022-11-02T16:36:11Z")
I love the long dark and don’t find it unpleasant to play at all. It’s definitely a challenge, but I don’t think challenges are unpleasant. @T_Elliot Super Meat Boy is a puzzle platformer with loads of increasingly difficult hazards and it’s designed to have you repeat levels over and over to master them. I’ve got the impression that EVE is more a game of knowledge than a game of skill and that as long as you can learn and retain the knowledge you’ll do pretty well. Like I don’t know of any activity in the game that only the crème de la crème of players can succeed at. To me the sign of a real challenge is that there’s something that only a small number of players could ever accomplish. Like completing dark world in Super Meat Boy, most players (myself included) won’t ever be able to do that. What I mean with the multiboxing is that if you can simultaneous control 10 characters, then controlling one character must be quite an easy task. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems to me that if playing the game was a really tough challenge then splitting your focus to do it 10 times over would be completely impossible. I do find some parts of it entertaining and I focus on those parts but that’s the same with any MMO right? I don’t think I’ve ever played an MMO where I like every role and activity in it. Some things I’d like to see improved, mostly around upping randomness so things don’t seem so static and predictable, and some thing I think have to be improved for the game to still be around in another 10 years, but that doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy it. You say “We should not ruin what other people enjoy in a game” but isn’t that what gankers do? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418.md?page=16) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-handle-pve-only/382418.md?page=18)