# How to make ganking and AG a play style **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [November 13, 2022, 9:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272 "2022-11-13T09:08:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Arya\_Yeshe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arya_yeshe/32/397211_2.png) [@Arya\_Yeshe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arya_Yeshe)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 12:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/63 "2022-11-22T12:23:53Z")
That is not an exploit, this is called: earning LP buy fully killing a Tornado before CONCORD arrives ---
**Author:** ![Arya\_Yeshe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arya_yeshe/32/397211_2.png) [@Arya\_Yeshe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arya_Yeshe)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/64 "2022-11-22T12:24:46Z")
Ok, now I will logoff and never return Good luck in life and in EVE ---
**Author:** ![Maeltstome](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maeltstome/32/515012_2.png) [@Maeltstome](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maeltstome)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 1:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/65 "2022-11-22T13:24:09Z")
Ummm… did someone use 10 posts to theorycraft losec like it doesn’t exist? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/66 "2022-11-22T14:58:20Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Why does it matter what has “always” been the case though Chocolate ice cream has always tasted of chocolate. I don’t expect to open a tub of chocolate ice cream and be met with the taste of cheese and onion just because some people prefer cheese and onion crisps ! ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/68 "2022-11-22T16:17:20Z")
MMOs that do evolve with the times ALSO die out. You have not presented any evidence of a correlation between adapting to social pressure and survival, other than a weak “common sense” argument. A couple of other forumites have presented anecdotal evidence to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/70 "2022-11-22T18:09:07Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Video games are not ice cream. MMOs that don’t evolve with the times die out. That is just nonsense. The market for retro games is more than proof. People are still playing Chucky Egg 40 years after it first came out. People still play the original Doom, from 1994, and the original Half Life from 1998. The ‘revised’ version of Half Life…Black Mesa…has better graphics and is actually _harder_ than the original, but I am not a fan of it as I feel they somehow lost the atmosphere of the original game…maybe its just the change in music. One could argue that Elder Scrolls has been ‘dumbed down’ over the years. Die hard Morrowind vets love the original complex RPG menus, and consider later games such as Oblivion to be dumbed down for the carebears. But that’s to miss the point that later Elder Scrolls are entirely new and different games. They never changed Morrowind itself…which you can still play. And so with Eve. _Why_ should a game that had its ‘cruel universe’ format for 20 years fundamentally change for the benefit of a few carebears ? There’s no guarantee that catering to the carebears will actually lead to any long term sustainable increase in players…or that any increase wont be negated by the departure or failure to play of the more PvP or gank orientated. If the sole criteria is endlessly more players, you seriously run the risk of killing the goose that lays the golden egg. I see your proposals as actually being a disaster for Eve…and not the panacea that you imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/72 "2022-11-22T19:04:36Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Ganking is not the core of EVE, it’s a tiny playstyle engaged in by a tiny number of people For something soooo tiny, you are remarkably obsessed with it as it is all you _ever_ post about. See, this is where you keep flip flopping. One minute ganking is a tiny part of the Eve economy and the playerbase would barely notice its demise…and the next minute it is some hideous overbearing dragon that is eating up players en masse. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > New players would certainly be better off though. I was ganked as a new player…and am still very much here. If I can manage that…anyone can. All you really do is draw attention from the REAL reason people leave Eve…they are bored and the game is too complicated for their instant fix mentality. YOU are the one harming Eve, because you rant and rile against a reason that is not the main cause of noobs departing and you thus draw CCP attention away from the real causes. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/74 "2022-11-22T19:22:10Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s the biggest hurdle to new player retention. … must not reply … must not reply … Surely the fact that new players end up mining alone for long periods, bored out of their minds is a bigger hurdle than an occasional ship loss. ---
**Author:** ![Pozdro\_Tubylcy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pozdro_tubylcy/32/265318_2.png) [@Pozdro\_Tubylcy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pozdro_Tubylcy)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/76 "2022-11-22T19:29:39Z")
po tej stronie mowimy co nam sie podoba, nasz slowa kierujemy do kogo nam sie podoba i jak nam sie podoba, und nie straszni sa nam teksanscy prawnicy… pozdro xeux! ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/77 "2022-11-22T19:34:14Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s the biggest hurdle to new player retention. No it isn’t. You’ve just made that up. As you well know, when a corp member player scraps an account there is a notification from Concord of their demise. I had a look at 50 or so such cases for the corp I am in…to see if there was any record of them being ganked. It is one of the few examples where one can oneself get some _real data_…as its one of the few examples where you know someone has left Eve. What surprised me was not just that only 2 of the 50 had ever been ganked, but that the majority of players scrapping their accounts were not noobs at all. They were _mainly_ year old accounts. That suggests that there’s a host of other reasons besides ganking for people leaving Eve. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 8:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/79 "2022-11-22T20:05:39Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Again though, this is you just picking out some random “data” and saying “see! It’s fine!”. No, I never said all was fine. But I can use that data plus corp chat and word of mouth and other factors to get a broader picture of just how many are ganked and how many leave. Bear in mind…at any time I can go into ‘Corp Members’ and see when anyone joined and when they last logged in. I do this regularly as one of my corp tasks is to hand out implants to noob members. As its a fair sized corp I get to see a lot of noobs. So I sometimes see members who joined, never left, yet have not logged in for weeks. In fact I get a number of contracts for implants closed because the noob never ‘accepted’ them. THE perfect opportunity to get noob data ! And that data _clearly_ shows that 90% of all noobs to the corp are still there and active a month or two later. About 10% disappear within a week and are never seen again. And overall about 4% of the total were ganked. Even if we assume that every single ganked member left _because_ they were ganked, which we do not know, that still only makes it 4% or so of the noobs leaving due to ganking. And my point is that a much larger number actually disappear later on…a number you cant put down to noob ganking. So when people say there is no data on ganking and quiting Eve, well there is ! It is entirely possible to look at corp data and see what is going on. Corp data clearly tells me the main cause of people not logging in again is _not_ being ganked as a noob. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/81 "2022-11-22T20:31:41Z")
He surely likes to point out every procedural assumption anybody makes: “You assumed that up is up.” Meanwhile he makes claims that are so outrageous that they can scarcely be called assumptions, they are more like hyperbolic rhetorical devices (such as “they must/may have been ganked on an alt then”). ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/82 "2022-11-22T20:34:54Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But you’re still making assumptions. You’re still assuming that when someone stops logging a character in when they are in your corp that means they’ve quit. What assumption would CCP themselves make _other_ than failure to log in ? Even they do not _know_ a person has left…so they have to assume too. And you miss the fact that corp membership is a captive data set. If the person leaves the corp then they remove themselves from the data set. So I get to see both when they joined the corp, and when the last time was that they logged in…all the time they remain in the corp. Clearly, someone who has left Eve would remain in whatever corp they were in. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You’re also assuming that if they got ganked it had to be on that character, not an alt _You’re_ assuming that a majority of week old noobs even _have_ an alt. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > and you’re assuming that the gank will show on killboards. Given that most such ganks are by Safety in Isanamo…just down the road from corp HQ…yes, they will be on killboard. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > How many got ganked on alts? Again, you assume that week old noobs even have alts. We have no data on this. I know my first alt wasn’t till I’d been in the game 6 weeks or so…and it was purely a scout alt in a shuttle. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > No, it’s possible for you to look at corp data and make up some result that fit your preconceived conclusions. There’s nowhere near enough data there to form anything close to a reasonable conclusion. Nonsense…there’s _more_ than enough data. We have a large number of noobs, and the dataset is itself _perfect_ for establishing what is going on. The data provides just what one needs…joining date, and last logged in date. I realise the data doesn’t agree with your obsessive rant…but it is what it is. The one proviso that can be added is that CCP have several times said that membership in a corp makes a noob more likely to stay. But then, CCP should make entering a corp a more accessible and desirable thing for noobs rather than nerfing ganking. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/83 "2022-11-22T20:42:05Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I really hope you never work in any field that requires you to analyse data. I worked for 30 years as a systems analyst…after starting out creating computer games. You have with 100% certainty used my later code at some point in your life, as it has been ubiquitous in point of sales systems. Have a nice day ! ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/84 "2022-11-22T20:47:59Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I get that you have been recruited into a cult ROFL. Sometimes I wonder if you actually believe the hyperbole you spout. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Ganking is not the core of EVE When you undock, you consent to PvP 😃 Oh. Yea btw did you find on the box where being AFK is a core tenet of the game or > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Weirdly, you’ve defended P2W microtransactions and the resistance to P2W microtransactions runs a heck of a lot deeper in EVE than ganking does. Weirdly you still don’t know what P2W means 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The goose is already dead. They are already struggling to keep revenue up. Yet you can’t quit and still give them money 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s the biggest hurdle to new player retention. Unproven and you actually refuse to provide any proof of this claim so… > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Go tell that to CCP because heir data show s them that most people don’t stay, but I’m sure your single anecdotal example will make them ignore all their data. Cept that data doesn’t link it to ganking 😃 > [@Xeux](#): > > Surely the fact that new players end up mining alone for long periods, bored out of their minds is a bigger hurdle than an occasional ship loss. Grampy doesn’t care about the nubs. He wants ganking nerfed so he can AFK his stuff thru hi without worrying. It’s a smoke screen. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m absolutely in favour of PvP existing in the game, but it should be something people on both sides are _choosing_ to engage in, or at least are actively choosing to risk. Of course, cause then you’d opt out and continue to AFK the game 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > No, it’s possible for you to look at corp data and make up some result that fit your preconceived conclusions. There’s nowhere near enough data there to form anything close to a reasonable conclusion. What qualifies you to make this claim I wonder? You realize we know you’re full of quafe right? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/85 "2022-11-22T20:49:22Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > You realize we know you’re full of quafe right? In his mind he is crushing all of us in this debate. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 9:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/87 "2022-11-22T21:05:14Z")
I think in his mind he is fighting the good fight. In reality, I just got pity for the dude. We’re his only friends 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Can I just check for the record if you’re actually supporting Altaras “analysis” here? It’ll determine how seriously I take anything you say in the future. No one cares enough about your opinion bruv 😃 This threat doesn’t hold 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 9:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/88 "2022-11-22T21:17:38Z")
Name one flavour that had died out in the last 20 years. /MMO not Icecream //Just tell us that you want the new Map already. I am guessing it is on your agenda somewhere. ///Trying to care, really! ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/89 "2022-11-22T21:20:59Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Can I just check for the record if you’re actually supporting Altaras “analysis” here? It’ll determine how seriously I take anything you say in the future. The only people’s arguments I take seriously are my own. Even then, this is just the internet, so it is mostly BS. I don’t even read much of these accountant-ledger-debates. I find your arguments exhausting because you defend what appear to be crazy ideas without conceding anything, or acknowledging that other people have very, very different empirical views than you do - views that as far as I am concerned are worth just as much as yours. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/90 "2022-11-22T21:27:35Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Do you _genuinely_ believe that you can get anywhere close to the same data CCP has access to just by looking at the corp roster and killboards? Yup. What more data do I _need_ other than join date and last login date ? And by definition I have the best thing of all…_a captive data set_…as someone who has left Eve will not have switched corps and if they did switch corps they would not be part of the data anyway. Simple ! After all, it is erroneous to define it solely in terms of whether someone 100% ‘left’ Eve. If they have not logged in for 3 months…they might just as well have ! In terms of concurrency there is practically no difference. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I seriously doubt that. I don’t care what deluded fools doubt. The fact that you don’t believe something that is true only serves to show how readily you believe a load of BS that isn’t ! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272.md?page=5)