# How to make ganking and AG a play style **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [November 13, 2022, 9:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272 "2022-11-13T09:08:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 4:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/147 "2022-11-23T04:46:09Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > This is an unknowable. The _exact_ figure may be unknowable…but we do know that there are around 4,500 kills in highsec every week. We can see from general trends that a sizeable portion ( especially with noobs ) is due to NPCs. We also know a sizeable portion is older players. But heck…even if the true figure was not 100 noobs ganked a week but 10 times higher at 1000…which is highly unlikely and Why Was I Ganked channel shows no indication of it ( it would mean 142 noobs ganked a day…6 every hour…which is simply not what one sees )…that would still only be 10% of all the noobs who leave every week so Lucas would still be wrong. Actually…even if every single kill in highsec was a kill of a less than 1 week old noob, and nobody else was being killed and there were no NPC kills…Lucas would still be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 4:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/148 "2022-11-23T04:51:14Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > that would still only be 10% of all the noobs who leave every week so Lucas would still be wrong. Sure. I agree with you, but he hasn’t said, the majority of new players leave because of ganking. He’s said, ganking is a major reason new players leave. Those aren’t exactly the same thing. I think he is wrong, but I bet even if we all discussed (not something that we actually do often, we more argue at each other) what “major reason” means, I’m sure there’d be multiple definitions and what Lucas means by that may not be how it’s being interpreted. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 4:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/149 "2022-11-23T04:55:17Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > the majority of new players leave because of ganking. He’s said, ganking is a major reason new players leave. No, he didn’t say ‘a’ major reason he said it was THE major reason. He specifically said ’ It’s **the** biggest hurdle to new player retention.’ That cannot mean anything other than a claim that most people leave due to ganking…a claim that the data shows is definitively wrong and mathematically _cannot_ be true. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 4:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/150 "2022-11-23T04:56:51Z")
You need to give up this idea that Lucas will listen to you. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 5:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/151 "2022-11-23T05:03:17Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > No, he didn’t say ‘a’ major reason he said it was THE major reason. He specifically said ’ It’s **the** biggest hurdle to new player retention.’ Sure, but there’s still a good chance that what you think that means, isn’t what he means and the discussion will go nowhere. Why does it even matter? CCP have made changes, adapt to them and play on. Continue to gank Ventures, just to show to CCP what we all know, that they don’t actually have a clue about ganking, nor what drives gankers. It isn’t above griefing new players, but it can very much be about showing CCP how clueless these changes are. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 5:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/152 "2022-11-23T05:09:25Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Sure, but there’s still a good chance that what you think that means, isn’t what he means Lol. Straining at a gnat to swallow a camel. Just how many ways can one interpret ’ **the** biggest hurdle to new player retention’. Its not ambiguous at all. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Why does it even matter? CCP have made changes, adapt to them and play on. No…I’m firing a broadside on behalf of all those who will leave if CCP moves the goal posts much more. Noobs are not the only ones CCP needs to worry about leaving. I’ll have pretty soon had enough myself if things get messed about too much. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 5:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/153 "2022-11-23T05:12:56Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > if CCP moves the goal posts much more. CCP is pretty clear that they intend to move the goalposts a lot more. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 5:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/154 "2022-11-23T05:18:41Z")
Fine…well I have 44 games on my Steam watchlist that don’t come with a free Lucas. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 5:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/155 "2022-11-23T05:51:43Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Just how many ways can one interpret I don’t know, more than one? I don’t even think my view on that has any importance at all. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > No…I’m firing a broadside on behalf of all those who will leave if CCP moves the goal posts much more. They’ll always move them and it’s swings and round abouts. The answer when numbers go down is always CCP. Scarcity for example, not ganking, caused more people to leave in the last few years than ganking. The “end to scarcity” even compounded that, simply because the end of scarcity wasn’t at all, an end to it. If CCP provide enough reward for being in space, people will login and undock. We see that when ratting income in null is good. Despite hunters, people still login. But when rewards drop, people stop logging in. The answer is always - it’s CCP that is the root cause of more players leaving the game than anything we do as players. As for me, I don’t really enjoy ganking as a playstyle for myself, but ■■■■ CCP right now. I’ve resubbed my gank alts and am specifically ganking Ventures (and if they turn out to be new players, contracting them 10 pvp fit ships and encouraging them to go have fun). Nothing to do with griefing anyone. Just totally about CCP not telling any of us what is worthy gameplay and what isn’t. That’s for us to decide. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 7:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/156 "2022-11-23T07:55:05Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > I don’t know if that is what you are referring to, but I don’t recall anything they’ve presented on a specific experiment (but may have missed that). It was close but not exactly. I have found it, it was “The Friendship Machine” (2019) and as I’m on mobile I do _not_ have it time stamped: [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/b/8/b80dc0e5ce91dee2d55cda0798f7b41f284c9900.jpeg "EVE Vegas 2019 - The EVE Friendship Machine") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rEfQ3GT73A) At 45 minutes he begins talking about the role of fleets. At 48 minutes is when he examines metrics around the cohorts. That’s what I was thinking of, though I didn’t recall it precisely right. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 10:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/158 "2022-11-23T10:12:46Z")
If he said “ganking is the major reason for new players leaving” an I don’t know that because I have him in ignore list, then you can never win the argument or provide any data to disprove his claim. What he means is that the fact that ganking exists makes these players to quit. ie. all these players who didn’t get ganked, still left because their friends or members of the corp they joined got ganked, or simply because the risk of being ganked even exists in this game. Which just cannot be proven or disproved. And we know that gank-haters doesn’t have to prove anything, it is the pro-ganking side that must prove the gank-haters are wrong. @Altara_Zemara your logic is rock solid, but the gank-haters and crybears will never accept logic as their crowd is driven by emotions. And you need to realize that Lucas is not there to make the game better or to discuss (in any faith), he is there to destroy this game. He no longer plays the game, he plays the forum and the only way to beat him is to ignore him. He will never accept logical arguments or even clear facts and he will always twist it somehow or derail it or move post goal or simply say “I wrote that, but that is not what I meant”. You are better to spend the energy ingame or for something else. At any rate I do know what heavily and negatively impacts player retention, it is @Lucas_Kell . Toxicity and constant spamming, if this was my discord server, he would already be perma banned. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/159 "2022-11-23T10:36:03Z")
Just block Lucas. He says nothing of merit. He claimed CCP will take meaningful action to ban/nerf gankers. We are still here. CCP even gave us free Omega on alphas which we can recycle to keep ganking without buying security tags. Lucas can say whatever he wants, its all meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 10:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/160 "2022-11-23T10:59:19Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Can’t say I’m sad about that. If it means you stop attacking people on the forums I call it a plus for the community. Uh bro, you attack people on this forum more than anyone else. Hell, you even grief Githany. It’s wild 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/162 "2022-11-23T12:52:14Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > We are still here. You should tell Githany, they were complaining about how hard it is to find gankers now and considering going to lowsec instead to carry out the anti-piracy police roleplay. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/163 "2022-11-23T13:04:47Z")
Lucas does too show merit and Frostpacker won’t ever block you! ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 1:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/164 "2022-11-23T13:16:29Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I don’t understand why some people think that they can’t play the game if there are people who are able to shoot rocks in highsec without getting ganked Do you not see that it is not about shooting rocks while not getting ganked? It is about being able to know when to be reactive or be proactive. _I would hate to be sitting on your bus with that bomb that forces you to not drive under 50._ ---
**Author:** ![Tec8n0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tec8n0/32/469865_2.png) [@Tec8n0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tec8n0)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 3:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/165 "2022-11-23T15:10:25Z")
this is a bad idea, as bad as antiganker efforts, you should feel bad. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/166 "2022-11-23T16:10:26Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Bear in mind her claim is that from looking at the join date and last login date for a single corp she has as much data available to her to determine the effect of ganking on retention as CCP does. If you’re agreeing with that then you have zero credibility in any future discussion. No, my claim is that that is just _one_ of the things that adds significant data. The other thing is CCPs own data regarding 90% leaving within the first week. We know for an absolute fact that even the total number of kills ( including by NPCs ) in highsec every week is not even half the number of leavers. So your claim that we have no idea of the data is just pure nonsense. We can get a pretty damned good idea from multiple different sources…all of which say the same thing…that the vast majority of noobs who leave have not been ganked. Of course, it is obvious to everyone that you do not _want_ to recognise any data that shows you are talking BS. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/167 "2022-11-23T16:17:09Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So you’re not upset with CCPs changes? The tethering thing doesn’t affect me…or the vast majority of gankers. The change to Alpha clones simply means I’ve moved my ganker alt to be an Omega account…a minor inconvenience while the Omega skills up but actually a huge benefit in the long run as instead of having a ganker restricted to 600 DPS or so…I can now reach 800 DPS. So ironically the changes make my ganker more powerful. Clone soldier tags ? Meh…small change. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/169 "2022-11-23T16:48:03Z")
It seems to me that the best way to increase player retention would to make it a lot more difficult to create a new account. That would eliminate most of these people who aren’t really serious about Eve and would boost that percentage big time. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272.md?page=8)