# How to make ganking and AG a play style **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [November 13, 2022, 9:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272 "2022-11-13T09:08:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/170 "2022-11-23T16:54:11Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Again though let me be clear that “the biggest single cause” is not the same as “the thing that causes more most people to leave”. You are well on your way to a career in politics. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 3:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/172 "2022-11-25T03:27:41Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/c/6/3c6ae35f3c831aef5d47b93dc343e71405f1f4a0.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 8:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/173 "2022-11-25T08:20:38Z")
All this chat about what effect pvp has, what effect ganking has, is all well and good but the place we are at right now is not really what I wanted. When I started anti-ganking I wanted to make people realise you don’t have to be frightened about fighting back, true you must never underestimate your enemies, there are ways to fight back. Around the time of the last great war, large fleet ganking was in full swing, by then we had learnt how to stop these large ganks, with more and more people fighting back. It shows to me the game as it was worked, next we look at miner ganking, we found ways to interrupt the moving fleets but as they learnt our tactics so they adapted and rightly so. The problem for us was at the actual asteroid belt, yes we could stop a gank if we was there but the gankers have so many targets they just move on if we are around. That’s where the game let us down a bit, may be ccp should have said if you want to mine in high, mine as a group and have a protection Fleet but no, lets not talk about the dirty gankers and many for so long refused to acknowledge a problem and that went on for years. I’m totally against nerffing game play, I think things should be added to the game , like development in the real world, ( unless its the munnin scenario which needed a fix) so if game play is lacking in some way don’t nuff the other side buff the side that’s having trouble. If a ship can’t compete let it die out but replace it with a new one fit for its role. That way we have new ship coming into the game for a reason. Sorry I digress, back to miners, so ccp should have changed the game play in belts, make it a viable game play style to hunt gankers that go after miners. The new changes do nothing to stop miner ganking, give us new tools to try and hunt them, or its back to being bored if we try. I don’t know how it could be changed, large fleet ganking didn’t need a change we could fight that, Tornado gate gankers don’t need a change, kill rights exist to run them off. There are ways to stop abyss ganking but that can be a bit boring. Random miner attacks are almost impossible to stop by us. So start adding game play not stripping existing styles away and fix wars of the love of God 😁 or fix structures (Did I waffle to much) ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 10:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/175 "2022-11-25T10:19:28Z")
> [@Githany\_Red](#): > > That’s where the game let us down a bit, may be ccp should have said if you want to mine in high, mine as a group and have a protection Fleet but no, lets not talk about the dirty gankers and many for so long refused to acknowledge a problem and that went on for years. When I first started playing high sec was dangerous because of can flippers doing suspect baity things. It was great because it forced social interaction in an MMO instead of the boring instanced / siloed stuff common in so many other MMO games that quite literally get rid of the “massively” in MMO. And mechanics that encourage or reward social interaction are good for MMO health as it’s usually friends and friendly people that get each other to keep logging in through the ups and downs of Eve. 12 years ago many highsec corps started because locals wanted to mine in highsec safely and have each other’s backs. Solo play (which is not “alone play”) is still viable but comes with challenges that groups don’t have and people have to come to reckoning with that. People that want to play a spaceship game without social interaction (this is “alone play”) have quite a ton of other games to choose from and I see no reason why Eve should be dragged to fitting that genre. It should instead lean into its strengths. ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Bedlam](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/total_bedlam/32/341964_2.png) [@Total\_Bedlam](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Total_Bedlam)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/177 "2022-11-25T11:18:45Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Very few (if any at all) of the people calling for nerfs to or removal of ganking want to play without any social interaction. They just want the social interaction they engage in to be by their choice, not forced on them I have read a lot of your posts, Lucas. I agree with you 100% and lots of other players do too. Thank you for speaking up against the bullies and griefers. The future is PvE. Ms. Bedlam 🤓 ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 12:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/178 "2022-11-25T12:08:34Z")
> [@Githany\_Red](#): > > Sorry I digress, back to miners, so ccp should have changed the game play in belts, make it a viable game play style to hunt gankers that go after miners. The new changes do nothing to stop miner ganking, give us new tools to try and hunt them, or its back to being bored if we try. Well that is very nice and well meant, but you are coming with this a bit late and you are not presenting what exactly should CCP do to enable it. All that CCP heard from players on reddit and forums and ingame was nerf ganking and remove ganking from the game. So they did that. Your voice just wasn’t heard, just like ours - the gankers. And this will not change, I expect more nerfs until ganking will be completely removed from game. Which is why I am not subbing more than month periods. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 12:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/179 "2022-11-25T12:34:41Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > > > 12 years ago many highsec corps started because locals wanted to mine in highsec safely and have each other’s backs. > > It didn’t really have anything to do with safety, it was to socialise. Most of those corps ended up disbanding and having players leave the game because of mass wardecs At 1st it was safety I moved into low sec minmatar space, we needed to stick together, something we learnt from can flippers in high, this was before alliances but we grouped together for mutual protection. And yes your right war dec corps ended many of these corp, it made us move deeper into low, but because we had a war running with Pie not much changed, high was always dangerous, we wasn’t really a target for war decers anyway. I think the the changed happened in eve by the war dec corp and how they mass dec players, ccp forced to fix it by stopping mass war dec unless you had a structure, so the decers moved more into ganking because lack of targets in high. It’s a bad state when groups are forced to gank as the only way of stopping a rival who incest flying cargo in freighters in non war eligible corps. Like mining groups have ganker fleets to beat off other mining groups Ps my above does not include grieffer gankers. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/181 "2022-11-25T13:47:01Z")
> [@Githany\_Red](#): > > so the decers moved more into ganking because lack of targets in high. Or they quit because the gameplay was completely removed. Also, I only see Lucas’ retorts when you quote them. I’m not surprised he disagreed with my “many highsec corps wanted safety” to declare “no you’re wrong they _only_ wanted to socialize” which is completely 1-dimensional, revisionist, and absolutist. Cannot give 1 inch of ground that could conceivably be used to build an argument for “the other side”. Your own story shows how you evolved from the pragmatism of safety into getting “hooked” by the Eve bug with friends and socialization. Thank you Githany for sharing it. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/182 "2022-11-25T15:13:43Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > This is bad game design. It forces interaction. I am amazed Lucas came right out and said this. Wow. In an MMO? Imagine a game that forces interaction! ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/184 "2022-11-25T15:35:01Z")
The entire purpose of MMOs is interaction. Otherwise you should do something else. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 3:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/185 "2022-11-25T15:37:24Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > > This is bad game design. It forces interaction. > > I am amazed Lucas came right out and said this. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > It was great because it forced social interaction in an MMO 🤣 This is hilarious. I don’t know which came first, but it sure does show the gaping ideological differences. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 4:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/187 "2022-11-25T16:42:26Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Very few (if any at all) of the people calling for nerfs to or removal of ganking want to play without any social interaction. They just want the social interaction they engage in to be by their choice, not forced on them. That is quite _ludicrous_ a comment on PvP, given the amount of PvE that is ‘forced’ on players. I mean, I never _ask_ those rats in the belt to come attack me. It is totally non-consensual. The majority of noob Ventures are lost to non-consensual PvE that is _forced_ on them. Yet there’s not a squeek about that from you. Maybe because it would show off the utter hypocrisy and double standards of your position. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/188 "2022-11-25T16:48:36Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > but think about what the worst, most soul-destroyingly boring activity in EVE is to you, then imagine someone could force you to do that with them I vote engaging with you in the forums as that activity. I mean, you’ve been on this rant for 7 years now…on and on and on and on. You have bored most people beyond death…yet still you pop up endlessly like the frikin dormouse popping its head out the teapot in Alice, pretending you care about noobs while you make billions out of the very commodities that kill them. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/190 "2022-11-25T17:29:18Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > That’s part of mining. Oh…how convenient ! So ‘forced’ stuff is OK because of some lame excuse that it is ‘part of mining’. Hmm. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Nope, they are killed by rats while they mine, which is part of mining. But it is **forced** on them. What the heck has the fact that they are mining got to do with it ? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > To you literally everything is a doublt standard or hypocrisy Yes…when you post. It **is** double standards to object specifically to stuff being ‘forced’ on players yet make excuses for such being allowed in PvE. If the game itself can force conflict on players then that sets a precedent there is no reason for anyone else not to follow. If belt rats can attack people in Ventures…_why_ should I not be allowed to as well ?? ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/193 "2022-11-25T18:46:20Z")
![ic](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/e/e/dee531802c672328f2c97527ba074ce232ded2b7.jpeg) It really doesn’t look as if Lucas Kell is being Ignored here but what Lucas Kell wants to achieve! ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 7:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/194 "2022-11-25T19:25:02Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s just not forced. That’s like saying “I did some missions and was forced to LOOT!”. It’s part of mining. The mining PvE experience is shooting rocks with lasers and defending your ship against red triangles. Typical Lucas semantic gibberish. I can’t believe how readily you believe your own lies and BS. Well, actually I can…as the forum has a long history of it. Fine. Let’s play your silly stupid game. If PvE belt rats are not ‘forced’ on a player, then neither ( by the exact same standards ) are gankers…as they are ‘part of mining’ too and have been for years. Gankers are just as much pirates and have just as much right to be in the asteroid belts destroying stuff. So if PvE rats are not ‘forced’…neither are gankers. But no doubt you’ll conjure up your usual semantic jabberwocky BS double standard lies and distortions to invent some twisted yawn-worthy pile of nonsense to ‘counter’ that. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 8:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/195 "2022-11-25T20:17:51Z")
How to perhaps make antiganking a playstyle could be defined from having the ability to call in Faction support fleets based on standings and ship class. Ganking is mostly achieved when a ganker fleet warps in. It is not to suggest that such a support fleet will 100% prevent ship loss but it adds a new playstyle to the ever concerning solo miner Capsuleer in Highsec. 1. Even Corp Members can’t always wait for other members to fleet up and mine together. 2. Maybe the playstyle everyone is asking for is right infront of us. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2022, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/197 "2022-11-25T23:15:30Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Forcing interaction is bad, because you’re always going to be forcing at least some players to do something they don’t enjoy. I never said forcing, I said ccp should point out its better to do some things in groups and try to encourage some activities to be undertaken in groups, > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > That might be why you chose to do it, but most highsec corps were not formed with the primary goal of being safer while mining It was all aspects of eve that got us to form a group primarily a minmatar fighting a mutual war with Amarr fanatics that pulled us together. Before fw was around, this put us in a good position to fight Invaders that threatened our low sec areas and to look after miners and mission runners. Solo players, tagged along too for group activities for protection ---
**Author:** ![Tec8n0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tec8n0/32/469865_2.png) [@Tec8n0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tec8n0)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2022, 1:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/198 "2022-11-26T13:00:30Z")
oh wow, not only antigankers suck at preventing ganks, but now they are complaining about sucking about miner anti-ganking. You will need to talk to hateless about this because he has ccplease ears and ganking is not ganking, its “griefieng”, the latest “griefing” changes protects the nullbear freighters, they do nothing for miners, specially venture newbro miners wich are a delight to gank, sorry, “grief”. What I would recommend you do is kill yourself (in game), biomass, and transfer all your assets to me. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2022, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272/199 "2022-11-26T13:29:10Z")
> **With all this talk about AG or G playstyle, does this require fake clone copies?** > > ![fake](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/4/6/1/461ca97af3871ddc31f3a1da03bab41023f8953e.jpeg) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-make-ganking-and-ag-a-play-style/384272.md?page=9)