# How to Talk to your Child about the Minmatar Rebellion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [March 4, 2023, 11:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798 "2023-03-04T23:38:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Synthetic\_Cultist](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/synthetic_cultist/32/388342_2.png) [@Synthetic\_Cultist](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Synthetic_Cultist)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 11:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/1 "2023-03-04T23:38:59Z")
My Daughter is 10.5 standard Years old, and has been Learning about historical events at School. Accordingly, I am frequently Beset by Difficult Questions such as “Mummy, was the Gallente intervention in the Minmatar Rebellion specifically intended to keep the Amarr Empire from allying strongly with the Caldari State during the First Gallente-Caldari War, thereby avoiding a two-front war that the Federation could not reasonably have expected to win ?” I am Uncertain how best to Answer such Questions, since I was not Around at the Time and do not have Access to the Governmental Records of the involved parties. ---
**Author:** ![Jesoph\_Swolin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesoph_swolin/32/383423_2.png) [@Jesoph\_Swolin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesoph_Swolin)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 12:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/2 "2023-03-05T00:50:01Z")
The Gallente intervention resulted in weakening the Empire, and caused them to have their hands full. Whether it was specifically to block an alliance is unclear, but it did create a balance in the cluster which provided stability due to deadlock. Without access to the documents, one would have to find a Boffin who has studied it. ---
**Author:** ![Niina\_Eskola-Fae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/niina_eskola-fae/32/509812_2.png) [@Niina\_Eskola-Fae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Niina_Eskola-Fae)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 1:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/3 "2023-03-05T01:03:36Z")
Carefully sit them down and explain to them that when two states love eachother very much they do a special kind of dance called “diplomatic negotiations” and sign a paper with a priest or official called an “alliance.” But not all states can or want to form an alliance, or feel comfortable putting a label on it. Sometimes they just want to be in a coalition. Or sometimes they think its exciting to experiment with power dynamics and do things like defensive pacts, or protectorate-play. Also all of these don’t have to be between just two states. An alliance can be three states. Or two states and an observer state. Or even between non-government organizations, or other identities. The important part is that whatever the label is, all treaties between powers remain– - Safe - Sane - Consensual Ideally with some sort of safe-word or prenuptial agreement that always either party to pause or leave the relationship if they no longer feel comfortable. The point is, during the Gallente-Caldari war associating with the Federation decidedly did not abide to any of these guidelines. Anyway-- wait, we were talking about the Minmatar? Oh. Hmm. Pass. ---
**Author:** ![Hun\_Tra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hun_tra/32/511052_2.png) [@Hun\_Tra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hun_Tra)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 1:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/4 "2023-03-05T01:59:38Z")
If I ever give honest advice, this is it: Let them be a child. They can worry about these things later. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 6:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/5 "2023-03-05T06:48:38Z")
A child old enough to ask is a child old enough to hear the answer. I do not personally think evidence supports the idea that the Federation’s _specific_ intent in interfering on behalf of the Minmatar was to gain advantage against the Caldari. It might have been a side bonus that figured in to the decisions, but not the main goal. ---
**Author:** ![Sevrailan\_Tian\_Valirieux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sevrailan_tian_valirieux/32/360697_2.png) [@Sevrailan\_Tian\_Valirieux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sevrailan_Tian_Valirieux)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 7:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/6 "2023-03-05T07:10:35Z")
Reading recent official histories in the Republic the impression I got was that the Minmatar all decided to collectively grab their own bootstraps and lift themselves out of slavery on their own without outside help. There was never a Gallente intervention, the Minmatar did it all on their own. Obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/7 "2023-03-05T14:06:04Z")
You will, of _course_, provide citations to those official histories. ---
**Author:** ![Synthetic\_Cultist](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/synthetic_cultist/32/388342_2.png) [@Synthetic\_Cultist](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Synthetic_Cultist)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 3:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/8 "2023-03-05T15:15:17Z")
What do you consider the Main Goal to have been ? ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/9 "2023-03-05T16:03:50Z")
I wasn’t there, but I think the Federation’s policy has probably been aimed to avoid a costly war with an alien, expansionist power while simultaneously trying to help some of its victims so as not to become too complicit in its atrocities. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/10 "2023-03-05T20:41:57Z")
This seems about correct, really, though I’m not sure the complicity bit was really on anybody’s mind at the time. The Empire at the time the Federation first encountered it had a pre-Vak’Atioth foreign policy of aggressive military expansionism, backed by a vast civilization with resources that made it potentially a massive threat. I mean, they tried to invade the Jove. Seriously. They tried that. That’s literally what Vak’Atioth was. (Maybe nobody knew how bad an idea that was at the time, but … seriously, how was the outcome of that anything but obvious?) Fighting the Empire on one side and the State on the other was not looking like a good idea. Taking advantage of Amarrian shock after the loss at Vak’Atioth to spark an internal (at the time) rebellion not only weakened and diminished the Empire but brought a nascent power into play that was bound to side with the Federation on just about anything, at least for a while. It’s basically how the current balance of power came to exist to begin with. Moral concerns may have smoothed the path but I don’t think that was really too much a part of “why.” Nation-states don’t tend to be too worried about those. (Witness the extant free-trade agreement between Empire and Federation, Amarrian, er, workforce practices notwithstanding.) ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/11 "2023-03-05T20:55:32Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > I mean, they tried to invade the Jove. Seriously. They tried that. That’s literally what Vak’Atioth was. > > (Maybe nobody knew how bad an idea that was at the time, but … seriously, how was the outcome of that anything but obvious?) It was maybe less of a bad idea than history pictures it as, though. The ships lost in Vak’Atioth were a fraction of the Amarr Navy’s power, and they were in fact _about to go for round two_ when the Rebellion interfered with that plan. There is no real saying they could not have won that round two. ([reference](https://universe.eveonline.com/lore/transitional-era-of-the-amarr-empire)) Most histories says the Rebellion was won because of Vak’Atioth weakened the Amarr. It is, I think, as true to say that the reason the Amarr sued for peace with Jove instead of coming back to kick them was the Rebellion. (The Jove, obviously, want to tell the story as Jove’s might being the decisive factor - it served them well as propaganda later on.) ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/12 "2023-03-05T21:31:22Z")
Hm. I suppose. The Jove did have … er, problems. And it looks like they’ve now collapsed under the weight of a natural (?) disaster. Still, it’s not like their tech isn’t _alarmingly_ more advanced even on cursory examination. That alone seems like it should have screamed for taking them extremely seriously, disease-troubled or not. ---
**Author:** ![Nauplius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nauplius/32/403015_2.png) [@Nauplius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nauplius)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 12:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/13 "2023-03-06T00:04:01Z")
Simple. Use the history of the Minmatar Rebellion in order to _teach your child to **hate** _. Teach her to _hate_ the Minmatar. Teach her to _hate_ them for daring to rebel against God and his Chosen. Teach her that the Minmatar people by their rebellion made themselves an _eternal slave people_ to whom nothing is owed except _abject brutality_ — forever. Cultivate her hatred. Cultivate her hatred of the Minmatar with the Minmatar Rebellion as the focus point. ---
**Author:** ![Skylar\_Cloud](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skylar_cloud/32/417720_2.png) [@Skylar\_Cloud](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skylar_Cloud)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 4:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/14 "2023-03-06T04:46:09Z")
The Caldri State has informed us and educated the general public to the facts at hand. If your child was educated in our society, she wouldn’t need to question the facts. The Gallente Federation has exasperated the conflict between Amarr and Minmatar. They continue to enrage both of these factions to benefit their need to profit from this illusion of a cold war. What the Gallente Federation fears the most is reconciliation between Amarr and Minmatar and both factions united against the Federation. I am certain you will work it out. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 5:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/15 "2023-03-06T05:28:37Z")
> [@Skylar\_Cloud](#): > > The Gallente Federation has exasperated the conflict between Amarr and Minmatar. I promise you, we need no _exacerbation_ from the Gallente Federation to continue our efforts to resist Amarr aggression and rescue our people from unjust enslavement. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 5:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/16 "2023-03-06T05:30:53Z")
Well, I mean, the conflict could be getting increasingly vexed and annoyed? Probably not by the Gallente, though. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 6:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/17 "2023-03-06T06:28:20Z")
> [@Skylar\_Cloud](#): > > reconciliation between Amarr and Minmatar and both factions united against the Federation Why in the everliving cluster would we ever do that? I get why the _Amarr_ would, but why the Minmatar? ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 12:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/18 "2023-03-06T12:18:08Z")
> [@Sevrailan\_Tian\_Valirieux](#): > > Reading recent official histories in the Republic the impression I got was that the Minmatar all decided to collectively grab their own bootstraps and lift themselves out of slavery on their own without outside help. > > There was never a Gallente intervention, the Minmatar did it all on their own. > > Obviously. Having met Synthia’s daughter, I am pretty sure if you tried telling her that the Minmatar had zero outside assistance, that she’d roll her eyes, say “pfft” and consider you to be _“very silly”_. I’d be inclined to agree with that. ---
**Author:** ![Yo\_Milum\_Teres](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yo_milum_teres/32/407464_2.png) [@Yo\_Milum\_Teres](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yo_Milum_Teres)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/19 "2023-03-06T14:21:30Z")
> [@Nauplius](#): > > Teach her to _hate_ them for daring to rebel against God and his Chosen. Teach her that the Minmatar people by their rebellion made themselves an _eternal slave people_ to whom nothing is owed except _abject brutality_ — forever. And this is why the Amarr and Minmatar will never need the Gallente to foment conflict between them. The Amarr publicly beg to be despised for their unhinged philosophies. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798/20 "2023-03-06T15:40:41Z")
Yeah, that’s, um, more of a “him” thing, pilot. You won’t usually find even the more warlike Amarr aligning with Mr. Nauplius very often. Sometimes I think he adjusts his opinions specifically to make sure he stands out. There’s no point in being a heretic if you’re just going to sound like an enthusiastic Sarum vassal, after all. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-talk-to-your-child-about-the-minmatar-rebellion/397798.md?page=2)