# HyperNet Relay Welcomes Scammers đŸŽ« **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 25, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356 "2019-12-25T18:15:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/142 "2019-12-30T01:58:56Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > Same to you ~.~ Citation: the house edge is based on percentages, not absolute values. IOW, the house has a 1% edge, not a $1 edge, with the exact number determined by the probabilities and rules of the game. Multiplying all dollar amounts does not change either of those factors, so a house edge of 1% with a $1 bet will remain exactly the same 1% at a $1 million bet. The ONLY thing that might change is that if you’re betting a sufficiently large amount of money the casino might give you access to a private game with slightly more favorable rules. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 2:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/143 "2019-12-30T02:06:24Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Multiplying all dollar amounts does not change either of those factors, so a house edge of 1% with a $1 bet will remain exactly the same 1% at a $1 million bet. It does because of the thing called a bank. Over infinite H-T coin tosses, you will get half heads, half tails. But over 100, you might get all heads. And if you don’t have a big enough bank, you may be wiped out even though you had every advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 2:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/144 "2019-12-30T02:10:13Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > I don’t understand math. You’re right, you really don’t. Let’s say you have a coin that is 55% heads, 45% tails. Heads you lose, tails you win. If you flip a couple of times you might come out ahead you might get lucky and win. If you flip 100,000 times you are virtually guaranteed to lose more than 50% of the time. The only thing having a sufficiently large bank does is allow you to play enough games to reach the point where your long-run losses become virtually guaranteed. Now, bank size _would_ be a factor if the game inherently favored the player in the long run (IOW, had positive expected value) as long as you could survive the short-term losses. But blackjack, like all casino games, inherently favors the house. Over an infinite number of blackjack hands you will lose money. ---
**Author:** ![Xuxe\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuxe_xu/32/464660_2.png) [@Xuxe\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuxe_Xu)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/145 "2019-12-30T02:14:41Z")
_ **Don’t be stupid, be a smarty, never join the hypernet party** _ Only idiots make those idiotic hypernet thingamajigs - and you don’t want to be an idiot, do you? Don’t make 'net, kids! Not even once. ---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 6:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/146 "2019-12-30T06:21:19Z")
> [@Xuxe\_Xu](#): > > Don’t make 'net, kids! Not even once. Hypernet → Hnet → netH NetH addicts ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 8:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/147 "2019-12-30T08:36:42Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > Over infinite H-T coin tosses, you will get half heads, half tails. > > But over 100, you might get all heads. no you can’t. If that happens you can claim that the game is rigged. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/148 "2019-12-30T08:55:04Z")
There is a nice thing. You can flip a coin 10 times and all of those will be tails. Do you think its impossible? It is possible for sure because people did that. And it was not rigged. Probability of it is very slim, but it exists. You can try. I am sure you will suceed. The question is after how many times. You dont know till you start flipping. Or read how it works. You will lose less time. 😉 Now, if someone will get 100 tails in a row, well, does it sound so improbable for you? 🙃 You can always use this ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/3/b/3b0221b52d1e64c00096af9aa41be5e556f04f77.jpeg) Probability of someone using rigged coin is always more than the odds of using normal coin and getting 100% tails every time. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/149 "2019-12-30T09:04:04Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > You can flip a coin 10 times and all of those will be tails. yes you have a chance out of 1024 for this. if it’s 20 times you have a chance out of 1024\*1024 etc. so 100 times it’s a chance out of 1024^10 ±= 10^30. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > does it sound so improbable for you? it sounds impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/150 "2019-12-30T09:05:04Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > it sounds impossible. But it is possible. There is a chance you know. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/151 "2019-12-30T09:06:11Z")
So if we play a h/t game and I have 100 tails in a row, you won’t complain about being rigged ? Well I’d like to play with you. A lot. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/152 "2019-12-30T09:07:45Z")
I didnt say that, only that it is possible. And even in a first time someone attempts it. Justy have to get enough “people” throwing. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/153 "2019-12-30T09:08:21Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > I didnt say that, only that it is possible. yes you exactly said that. Because that’s what was my point, that you went nitpicking about. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > If that happens you can claim that the game is rigged. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > And even in a first time someone attempts it. Justy have to get enough “people” throwing. 😉 You need more people that the earth ever had to have even less than one out of 10^15 chance ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/154 "2019-12-30T09:12:27Z")
Well, its posible when we are using normal coin and it will not be rigged. Would need enough quantum computers to throw enough coins for us. Is it good way of spending time and energy? Probably not. 😉 But its essentially what gambling is. Convince someone to throw enough times, only some people bet money for result. So what if its nearly impossible, if there is enough money at stake, someone will gamble. 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/155 "2019-12-30T09:16:30Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Would need enough quantum computers to throw enough coins for us. We are talking about you and me playing a game. Computers have no room here. Your argument that it is possible is wrong. With low enough probability, it’s safer to consider you will die during the experiment. Or actually anything else. That means, the low probability becomes hidden by the noise of all the other “low probability”. If you have 100 tails in a row, the coin is rigged. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/156 "2019-12-30T09:20:44Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > We are talking real cases Computers are real cases you know. So you are wrong in that we have to use some metal quarter. And gambling is done using computers these days. HyperNet being example. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/157 "2019-12-30T09:22:45Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > I think computers have room here. only when you want to derail the topic and nitpick about BS. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > We can theoretically allow one very powerfull quantum computer toss coins for you, one for me. And nobody gives a ■■■■. We are talking real cases, and you come say “but with a simulator on a simplistic model”. You are out of the topic. Your event probability is below the error margin of the model. Thus , that even happening is called “noise”. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Computers are real cases you know. So you are wrong in that we have to use some metal quarter. No, when you talk about “computer toss coin for you” they are simulators. They obey to the rules they have been given, they follow a model that you gave them, that is over simplified for those big numbers. When a computer “tosses coins for you”, it’s not the same as you tossing coins. For example, you can’t toss 100 coins and have a tail - unless it’s rigged. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/158 "2019-12-30T09:39:02Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > When a computer “tosses coins for you”, it’s not the same as you tossing coins. For example, you can’t toss 100 coins and have a tail - unless it’s rigged. When it isnt rigged, there is still probability. You know there is, so it isnt impossible. Theoretically and mathematically. Practically its not using metal quarter. About the real random number, maybe you have heard of it? > **[How to Turn a Quantum Computer Into the Ultimate Randomness Generator |...](https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-to-turn-a-quantum-computer-into-the-ultimate-randomness-generator-20190619/)** > > Pure, verifiable randomness is hard to come by. Two proposals show how to make quantum computers into randomness factories. > **[Google's Quantum Computer Just Aced an 'Impossible' Test](https://www.livescience.com/google-hits-quantum-supremacy.html)** > > Has Google achieved quantum supremacy? PERFECT randomness. Not rigged in any way. đŸ’â€â™€ïž So I would argue computers have a place in that coin toss. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/159 "2019-12-30T09:43:45Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > So I would argue computers have a place in that coin toss. I already answered that. They are out of topic when we talk about real case, because their simulation is not real. I said “you toss”. You answered “computer toss”. You then are out of topic. You tossing a coin, and a computer simulating a toss, are not the same thing. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > When it isnt rigged, there is still probability. Only when you use a simplistic model. In reality, that never happened, that won’t ever happen (because that’s actually how you define if a coin is rigged) . The probability of an oversimplified model says that it could happen, but once you remove the oversimplification, it never happens. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/160 "2019-12-30T09:51:51Z")
It is not about who tosses tho, its about the result. The chance. You are falling for the simplest gambling blunder your brain can produce. That wto tosses have an ability to cause proper result. That the coin is important, that you can have bigger or lesser chance in a bet using different coin or using other hand
 I say that computers can be a honest, and not at all biased and rigged source of randomness. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356/161 "2019-12-30T09:54:29Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > its about the result. The chance. No, it is about a real case where I have 100 tails in a row and YOU claim it’s not rigged. When you are talking about computers simulating the toss, you are out of topic. Because it’s not a **REAL** case but a simulation, with oversimplifications. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > I say that computers can be a honest, and not at all biased and rigged source of randomness. out of topic. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hypernet-relay-welcomes-scammers/208356.md?page=9)