I accept responsibility for my losses. But EVE is starting to feel like a second job

I am writing this because today left me frustrated, exhausted, and questioning why I still play.

Before anything else: I made the mistake that led to these losses. A neutral appeared in local, and I chose to keep ratting. I knew the risk. I ignored the warning. I am not asking CCP to reimburse me, and I am not blaming the players who killed us for playing the game.

But accepting responsibility for a mistake does not make the experience enjoyable, or remove the frustration behind it.

My friend and I wanted to spend some time together, shoot some NPCs, earn some ISK, and feel like we were making progress. We were getting roughly 30 million ISK each per 20-minute tick. Then we lost two ships, with a combined loss of around 8 billion ISK.

These are the losses:

What remains is two killmails, two empty spaces in the hangar, and the question of how much time it will take to get back to where we were.

That last part is what hurts most.

The loss takes a moment. Replacing it becomes a project.

I know the usual answers: watch local, dock when a neutral enters, fly cheaper ships, do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. I understand those answers, and today I failed to act on one of them.

What I struggle with is what playing that way feels like over time.

People come through local constantly. Sometimes it is an explorer looking for relic or data sites. Sometimes it is someone hunting. Sometimes there is a hostile fleet behind them. You keep watching, interrupting what you are doing, and deciding whether you can continue.

Today, I got tired of that. I wanted to keep playing with my friend. I wanted some progress and some enjoyment. I made the wrong decision, and I paid for it.

Once we were caught, it did not feel like a fight in which I had meaningful options left. An expensive ship does not automatically give you the tracking, tackle, webs, or support needed to deal with the situation. By then, my useful decision had already passed.

I understand that this is part of EVE. I am describing why, from my side of the encounter, it felt like an execution rather than an engaging fight.

Too much of my experience now revolves around replacing ISK.

Ships cost ISK. Fits cost ISK. Replacing losses costs ISK. Funding Omega through PLEX adds another target to work toward.

The moments of satisfaction are still there, but lately they feel small compared with the time spent preparing for them or recovering afterward. Sometimes the reward for a month of playing feels like earning enough to fund the next month, when I get to repeat the process.

If I spend a month joining fleets and enjoying myself without earning much, my wallet steadily shrinks. Eventually, the question becomes how much farming I need to do before I can keep participating.

There are players with enormous reserves built over many years. I do not resent them for that. They earned their position. But the same loss can mean something very different depending on the resources behind it. For one player, it is an inconvenience. For another, it changes what they can do for weeks.

For players in my position, “just replace it” means committing more of our limited free time to earning back something we already had.

I wanted EVE to be an escape from everyday obligations. Instead, I am starting to measure my evenings in replacement costs.

I would like to see a serious discussion about insurance and recovery after a loss.

From my perspective, the current insurance system does too little to soften the loss of an expensive fitted ship.

I would like CCP to explore optional insurance that covers some of the fitting cost, or an insurance broker through which a player could purchase a replacement of their saved fit after a loss, with a defined level of coverage.

That would need limits. Premiums, partial payouts, exclusions, and safeguards against abuse would all matter. A replacement service should source ships and modules from the player market so that builders and traders remain part of the process.

I do not have a complete design worked out. But I think the question deserves discussion: could recovery be less exhausting while destruction still matters?

I want losses to remain meaningful. I also want to feel motivated to undock again after one.

PLEX does not resolve the frustration for me.

I understand that buying PLEX from CCP and selling it for ISK is an officially permitted system, distinct from prohibited third-party RMT.

But from a player’s perspective, real money can still be used to replace lost purchasing power. When the alternatives feel like spending many more hours farming or spending more money, that affects how I experience the game.

I am not claiming that every loss is designed to sell PLEX. I am saying that, when I am already exhausted by the grind, the ability to pay my way out of it does not make the underlying experience feel better.

Today was my fault. I can accept that and still ask whether the recovery loop is enjoyable.

Right now, I am struggling to find that enjoyment. I wanted to spend time with my friend and feel that we were getting somewhere. Instead, I am looking at the cost of rebuilding and wondering whether I have the energy to do it again.

Have other players reached this point? What would make recovering from a major loss more engaging, especially for players without huge financial reserves?

And is there room for better insurance without undermining the economy and the consequences that make EVE what it is?

1 Like

Fly cheaper ships, problem solved. You know, you can rat together without spendin 8b on Blingships.

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Never fly what you can't afford to lose.

Welcome to EVE!

:thinking: :wink: :ccpguard:

I knew that line would come up. :slightly_smiling_face:

“Never fly what you can’t afford to lose” is good advice. I ignored a warning, lost my ships, and accept responsibility.

My point is about what comes afterward. Being able to afford a loss financially doesn’t mean enjoying the hours needed to replace it. I’m questioning whether that recovery loop still feels rewarding.

I wanted an evening of playing with a friend. Now I’m calculating how many evenings it will take to get back to where I was.

“Welcome to EVE” describes the experience. It doesn’t really answer whether that experience could be better.

You’re making 30m every 20 minutes with a paladin and machariel. You are playing the game wrong. Ask your alliance to teach you how to make isk properly.

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It’s not necessarily talking about affording the loss financially. That aside, do you need that much bling to rat? There are cheaper ways to get bigger ticks.

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Look at it like this:

You do not need to replace that Paladin, since you don’t need it for ratting. There is barely any ratting content where that faction fit can even be a factor, compared to a tech 2 fit.

You saw why Paladins are not widely used for ratting in null, now try something else. Ishtars are great. T3 cruisers are just fine. Navy battleships, pirate battleships… all can produce 1.000 to 1.400 DPS with a dirt cheap tech 2 fit AND you don’t have a 2 billion ISK kill switch that you press yourself (faction Bastion module). I know that 4.000 DPS on paper sounds exciting, but it will make you a target for gankers even in higsec.

So, no… You don’t have to grind to replace those ships. You can enjoy the game just as much in much cheaper and more agile ships that you a) won’t lose much b) even if you lose one, you won’t feel it much.

And yeah… as someone who lived in Catch for a while, I can only say that choosing BR- to rat was not really a good idea in the first place. It’s a pipe border system that’s in the way between highsec and the rest of Catch. It gets more traffic and is more camped than Strait of Hormuz.

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You completely think about this in the wrong way. This is why I welcomed you in EVE (to the true EVE mindset). It isn’t supposed to feel rewarding, it is the opposite, losses should feel bad, and be unrewarding to recover from, the very point is that losses should be meaningful.

This is why when you lose a ship it hurts, and if you cause someone else to lose a ship it hurts them. This makes PvP exceptional in games like this because both sides will go out of their way to avoid losses, instead of just casually brushing it off.

:thinking: :psyccp: :wink:

You failed to act on ALL of them, not just one.

Do you keep dscan open when you’re undocked? Do you actually actively dscan? Especially when a neut is in the system with you? Dscan is the single most effective means for defending yourself. You can even forgo watching local under most circumstances. Dscan is what matters, and I am surprised how many players don’t use it at all.

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Even in hi-sec (even if you are not a typical gank target) it is a useful tool for both offensive and defensive or intel purposes in general. :thinking:

Well, that’s where I can pitch in.

People that do not understand EVE’s time x money (real investment, not ISK) x effort always enslave themselves. That leads to VERY POOR decision making.

Being there, done that.

Besides the answers that were already given,

if you just wish to continue ratting even if people enter your system, why not fit that Marauder for PvP?

For regular ratting sites it’s complete overkill to fit it with as much bling as you did, and you don’t need an optimized PvE fit either to do those sites in two battleships of which one is a Marauder either. You could do so in a cheap-ish PvP fit Marauder and intentionally wait for PvP to happen.

While your ticks could go down a bit, the change in risk and attitude would make it far more fun to continue ratting in space while those other players in local could potentially attack you, or let’s say ‘take your bait’.

Instead of being afraid someone might attack you and kill your blingy battleships you could be asking your friend for every neut that enters whether this one will finally fall for the bait you set up. And if not, you get some more ticks until someone does give you a fight!

Even if you die while fighting it’s probably a lot more fun and effective to take a few with you than to lose the ships in overpriced PvE fits like you did.

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You can start over, with a maller, and your bro in a stabber doing level 3 missions together.

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I never close dscan. I’ve had it open in my client(s) for years. The single circumstance where I don’t use dscan is when I’m docked up.

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Said multiple times already, but here you did not break one rule but pretty much all that you list.

That ship looks nice and all, but it’s really overblinged for what you were doing. At that point, you’d get same ticks in a full pvp fit. Replacing “lost” profit should not be a chore, and it really is not when you are appropriately shipped for the content you are running. Here, between you and your friend, you invested 7b more than you should, so technically speaking, even with that low of a tick, you’re talking 6h of gameplay to replace instead of 48. WIth more appropriate ticks, it would be maybe 2-3h. If you want to rat and chill, downshipping and selecting appropriate fit for site you run, gives you more relaxed experience. And you can also be more aggressive, as you are not losing much if that random passerby was not an explorer.

Another tip:

Funding Omega through PLEX adds another target to work toward.

Honestly, I do NOT think this is a good goal at all. It is precisely what makes eve a 2nd job, and a very shitty paid one on top of it. Of course, I do not know what your financial or time situation is and how many alts you run, but if you are not on eve spectrum, just buy subscription when it is discounted, and do not make plexing a goal, it will eat you up and suck enjoyment out of it.

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“I keep making choices that I KNOW will result in things that I don’t like”.

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It’s ok, I got a comeback scheme for you. I can sell you a mining permit on the cheap couple hundred million. You’ll be able to make your money back no problem.

I can only add I fly the smallest ship for the job and add no more than 1 bling fitting to get the fit I want. Best of luck!

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Ships are tools. Like a pickup truck to a contractor, or a semitruck to a long haul trucker. They are investments to return profit and in Eve if you treat them like a tool, with an expected return on your investment before they are likely to go boom, you will achieve the mindset more than just grinding for an expensive ship for a long time.

Now, that “profit” can be measured in isk, fun, killmails, etc. That is up to you but doing a cost/benefit analysis breakdown on your “fun mileage” in Eve helps a lot imo.

10/10 trolling. The effort you put in is remarkable. Bravo!