# I believe Warp To Zero destroyed Eve (We should allow indterdictor SHIPS to operate in low-sec) **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Tags:** balance, redesign, game-mechanics\ **Created:** [October 31, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622 "2019-10-31T17:58:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 3:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/125 "2019-11-01T03:40:55Z")
> [@Marcus\_Right](#): > > As a programmer, I an assure you the server-load could have been reduced and still not allow warp-to-zero. Until the next exploit is found. There was an issue with server performance, CCP took the simplest approach to fixing it. And it accomplished the desired goal very well. > NO, NO, NO! Bookmarks WOULD NOT WORK. Oh FFS, are you just trolling at this point? I’m talking about the situation _as it existed when CCP made the change_, not in 2019 under your proposed change. > In short, yes. At least you’re honest about wanting to sit on a gate and farm easy killmails. > You act as though the players wouldn’t adapt, as if the community, this great community wouldn’t come together. Yes, they would adapt, by leaving lowsec entirely and staying out of any corp that could be a war dec target. There’s a reason why the community hasn’t “come together” and removed nullsec bubble camps, expecting it to work any differently outside of nullsec is just plain delusional. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Right](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marcus_right/32/163815_2.png) [@Marcus\_Right](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marcus_Right)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 3:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/126 "2019-11-01T03:46:00Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Until the next exploit is found. There was an issue with server performance, CCP took the simplest approach to fixing it. And it accomplished the desired goal very well. You really don’t understand what you’re talking about here. I’m sorry to say it that way, but I really see no other way of saying it. CCP did not have to give us Warp-To-Zero at the same time they took away the bookmarks. The two things are completely separate issues. They gave us Warp-To-Zero because we (me included) in the community asked for it. NOT Because of the bookmarks. They solved the bookmark issue by deleting the bookmarks and making it so you couldn’t make new ones near the gates. As far as other exploits, well, players are always looking for other exploits, and as a game developer you deal with them. The fact that people are going to find and look for exploits is not a reason to allow an exploit to continue. That’s like allowing crime to exist because people are going to commit crimes. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Oh FFS, are you just trolling at this point? I’m talking about the situation _as it existed when CCP made the change_ , not in 2019 under your proposed change. No, I’m not trolling, you repeated the same point and you don’t know how much you’re not making sense. If (LandingDistance \< 15km) { LandingDistance = 15km }; It’s that easy. Warp bubbles do something to that effect right now. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > At least you’re honest about wanting to sit on a gate and farm easy killmails. If you’ve been paying attention you’d realize I’m not for that. My gawd, you really like to argue against what you think you’re arguing against, instead of arguing against the actual topic, don’t you? “I don’t have time to read all this!” - Then don’t butt in! > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Yes, they would adapt, by leaving lowsec entirely and staying out of any corp that could be a war dec target. There’s a reason why the community hasn’t “come together” and removed nullsec bubble camps, expecting it to work any differently outside of nullsec is just plain delusional. THEY LEFT LOW-SEC ALREADY! - Watch those videos I posted! Practially no-one is in low-sec! - Low-sec is DEAD RIGHT NOW. - I’m suggesting this so people (pirates) will populate low-sec again! ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Right](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marcus_right/32/163815_2.png) [@Marcus\_Right](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marcus_Right)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 3:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/127 "2019-11-01T03:46:16Z")
How can you have both, “Everyone leave low-sec” AND “Gate camps all over low-sec” ? =-=-=-=-= I’m going shopping. ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 3:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/128 "2019-11-01T03:50:33Z")
The best solution would have been to let ships do system to system warps without gates and get rid of this idiotic fatal funnel mechanic that feeds brainless “kill everything that moves for no reason” gameplay. People don’t mind getting blown up by others when the mechanics appear to be logical and fair. Oh… “Hurf blurf!!! Eve is PVP game”. Fine. We know who won the argument. They won the game too. How’s the game doing? ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 3:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/129 "2019-11-01T03:53:54Z")
> [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > Fine. We know who won the argument. They won the game too. How’s the game doing? RMT farmers won the argument, and now the game is dying. But feel free to ignore the fact that EVE thrived and expanded in an era where PvP took priority. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 3:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/130 "2019-11-01T03:55:54Z")
> [@Marcus\_Right](#): > > If (LandingDistance \< 15km) > { > LandingDistance = 15km > }; > > It’s that easy. And also that stupid, giving a gatecamp a guaranteed engagement at their perfect range because the incoming ship on a gate-to-gate warp will always land in the exact same spot. Unless of course you feel like dealing with the tedious slog of warping to intermediate points so you can come in at a different angle, making travel speeds slow to a crawl and most people stop bothering. ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 4:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/131 "2019-11-01T04:16:36Z")
It was OPTIONS that ruled the Golden Age of Eve™ Not some OCD driven narrow viewpoint of how to play the game endlessly pushed by people unable to find enjoyment in anything they did until they could force others to do it their way. I have ignored nothing, except the likes of you. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 4:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/132 "2019-11-01T04:22:03Z")
I’m sure it’s complete coincidence that the options that keep getting removed are PvP-related ones, and the active player count keeps dropping… ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/133 "2019-11-01T07:38:31Z")
> [@Complex\_Math](#): > > Most systems in null are empty as well. This isn’t a complaint, just an observation. The more secure people can be, they more they are willing to PvE in occupied systems. If we want more people to hang out in low, it needs to be safer (Or have better rewards) if you want less people to hang out there, then make it less safe. It needs to have better rewards and the _players_ need to be able to make it safe for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlet\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scarlet_starfire/32/244125_2.png) [@Scarlet\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scarlet_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 9:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/134 "2019-11-01T09:58:45Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > > [@Complex\_Math](#): > > > > Most systems in null are empty as well. This isn’t a complaint, just an observation. The more secure people can be, they more they are willing to PvE in occupied systems. If we want more people to hang out in low, it needs to be safer (Or have better rewards) if you want less people to hang out there, then make it less safe. > > It needs to have better rewards and the _players_ need to be able to make it safe for themselves. In low sec better rewards would do nothing (unless they were vastly better) to entice high-sec players into low-sec. Gate-camps are the main reason, when doing a mission you lose the ship to players, not only do you lose the ship and fittings you also lose the standing with the corp. you took the mission from and the standing hit is a big one. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 9:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/135 "2019-11-01T09:59:44Z")
That’s why you join a group that has the systems secured… ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 10:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/136 "2019-11-01T10:33:08Z")
I blame unbalanced over fishing that removed all the easy to kill players so that the fake hunters can’t kill anything and ran away moaning about PvP content being removed. Case in point is after the destroyer -25% ROF was removed CCP did not adjust the tanks of mining barges and exhumers leaving hisec mining players to be ganked at will and see their progress destroyed without any choices for two and a half years until a correct balance was restored where choices between yield and tank were possible. On top of that war decs, which CCP actually proved as being a killer in terms of activity and retention which only recently got adjusted. That was when all the easy to kill players gave up on Eve and all you have left are people like me in the main, who are not easy to get a kill on and require effort. And I find the endless whining of low effort quick kill players really irritating, especially those that demand something that makes the game really tedious in terms of getting around. Eve is no longer for you if you want your kill within one hour of low effort play, get used to it. HTFU. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Steak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ms_steak/32/168834_2.png) [@Ms\_Steak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ms_Steak)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 10:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/137 "2019-11-01T10:33:34Z")
> [@Marcus\_Right](#): > > They introduced warp-to-zero at the same time they deleted the bookmarks. I’m not sure why you try to turn facts upside down to suit your narrative. CCP didn’t introduce WTZ - it has always been there albeit in different form (bookmarks) that everyone used unless you are a new player. CCP chose to simplify bulky bookmark-spam WTZ system to ease the load on their systems and make the life of new players eaiser. A win-win solution. What you are proposing is a completely different beast that have never really been in EvE, because bookmarks. Therefore there is no way for WTZ to ruin something that never existed. You are just asking for easy kills and logistical nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlet\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scarlet_starfire/32/244125_2.png) [@Scarlet\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scarlet_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/138 "2019-11-01T11:07:34Z")
> [@Ms\_Steak](#): > > > [@Marcus\_Right](#): > > > > They introduced warp-to-zero at the same time they deleted the bookmarks. > > I’m not sure why you try to turn facts upside down to suit your narrative. CCP didn’t introduce WTZ - it has always been there albeit in different form (bookmarks) that everyone used unless you are a new player. CCP chose to simplify bulky bookmark-spam WTZ system to ease the load on their systems and make the life of new players eaiser. A win-win solution. > > What you are proposing is a completely different beast that have never really been in EvE, because bookmarks. Therefore there is no way for WTZ to ruin something that never existed. You are just asking for easy kills and logistical nightmare. WTZ didn’t ruin anything as you say bookmarks existed although I’m sure quite a few never used bookmarks to gates, I know I didn’t. I can’t remember when WTZ was introduced, but there was a time (maybe a year or two) CCP was struggling with lag in the game, I put it down to their equipment was working at its limits. Where they tried lots of different things to try and improve the lag including moving agents and agents sending you further afield even into low-sec to try and spread out the community. I think the op is just trying to get easy targets to gank. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Right](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marcus_right/32/163815_2.png) [@Marcus\_Right](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marcus_Right)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/139 "2019-11-01T20:39:41Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > I blame unbalanced over fishing that removed all the easy to kill players so that the fake hunters can’t kill anything and ran away moaning about PvP content being removed It has nothing to do with “over fishing” or “easy to kill players.” You need fast-locking ships to catch anything in low-sec, and fast locking ships can’t really tank gate-guns. It became more profitable to suicide gank in high-sec than to gate-camp low-sec. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > And I find the endless whining of low effort quick kill players really irritating, especially those that demand something that makes the game really tedious in terms of getting around. I hope you’re not implying I want low-effort easy kills by starting this thread. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Eve is no longer for you if you want your kill within one hour of low effort play, get used to it. HTFU. I want to find content in less than an hour. I don’t want to search for hours trying to find a single battle, that is a worthless battle to me because I’m being a bully to someone minding their own business. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Right](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marcus_right/32/163815_2.png) [@Marcus\_Right](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marcus_Right)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/140 "2019-11-01T20:46:36Z")
> [@Ms\_Steak](#): > > I’m not sure why you try to turn facts upside down to suit your narrative. CCP didn’t introduce WTZ - it has always been there albeit in different form (bookmarks) that everyone used unless you are a new player. CCP chose to simplify bulky bookmark-spam WTZ system to ease the load on their systems and make the life of new players eaiser. A win-win solution. How many times do I have to hammer this misunderstanding of the facts down? 1. I’m talking about the features Warp-To-Zero, not the effect Warp-To-Zero. 2. CCP was going to just delete the bookmarks around the gates and make it so everyone couldn’t land closer than 15km, as the game was originally designed and intended to be. 3. The community, me among them (possibly leading the charge, on the forums, LIKE NOW) recommended they allow us to just Warp-To-Zero, “Since we’re already doing it.” 4. CCP agreed with the community, because CCP is great at engaging with the community and listening for ideas, and such. OR CCP decided on their own to… And CCP put Warp-To-Zero in. 5. NOT EVERYONE HAD THE DAMN BOOKMARKS! They existed, but they were expensive and took a really, really, realy, REALLY, long time (back then) TO COPY. So, not everyone had them… And if you got them, and wanted to copy them to your alt or a friend it would take you something like WEEKS to make a copy. NOT EVERYONE HAD THE DAMN BOOKMARKS. Some people did, it was becoming a problem in-game, and it was a problem for the servers. And please, again, stop equating the Warp-To-Zero exploit that _SOME_ people had, with the Warp-To-Zero feature that _EVERYONE_ has. And… Secondly CCP did not HAVE to put Warp-To-Zero in as a replacement of the bookmarks, they technology (the same way Warp-Disruptor Bubbles Work in the code) exists for them to prevent ships from ‘landing’ closer than 15km of a gate. Addresssing another concern… They could code it so that you ‘land’ anywhere around the gate 15km away from it, not always in the exact place ‘in line’ if they want(ed) to. That was and is an option. I’m tired of YOU and people LIKE YOU getting the facts wrong and distorting them. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Right](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marcus_right/32/163815_2.png) [@Marcus\_Right](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marcus_Right)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/141 "2019-11-01T20:49:04Z")
> [@Scarlet\_Starfire](#): > > I can’t remember when WTZ was introduced, but there was a time (maybe a year or two) CCP was struggling with lag in the game, I put it down to their equipment was working at its limits. Where they tried lots of different things to try and improve the lag including moving agents and agents sending you further afield even into low-sec to try and spread out the community. You are correct that Warp-To-Zero can’t solely be blamed for ‘destroying Eve.’ For one thing, thankfully, Eve is still here. This thread isn’t meant to cover everything ‘that destroyed eve.’ Nor is the title, which is to draw people’s attention to this, meant to be taking literally. It’s a little hyperbolic on purpose, just like news paper and TV news headlines. You exaggerate a little bit to draw people’s attention in, it grabs people’s attention. It’s a known side-effect that it riles some people up. :-/ "DOG MAWS GIRL! - “A little girl got a little nip requiring a single stitch, and a scare last night.” ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/142 "2019-11-01T20:59:11Z")
> [@Marcus\_Right](#): > > You exaggerate a little bit to draw people’s attention in, it grabs people’s attention and it riles some people up. Well, at least you admit to being a troll. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Right](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marcus_right/32/163815_2.png) [@Marcus\_Right](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marcus_Right)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/143 "2019-11-01T20:59:50Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Well, at least you admit to being a troll. Depending on what you mean by the word Troll. Trolling for attention (for this thread)? Yes. Trolling to be a jerk? No. ---
**Author:** ![Kerono\_Thalmor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kerono_thalmor/32/505504_2.png) [@Kerono\_Thalmor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kerono_Thalmor)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622/144 "2019-11-01T21:01:02Z")
I like your post, and I have a simple solution: - Players cannot land within 15km of a celestial object. - Players _can_ land within 15km of a bookmark. - Bookmarks are prohibited inside 15km of a celestial object; any bookmarks existing/made within this radius are pushed out to 15km via the shortest path. This would kill the bookmark spam because while yes, you _can_ make a bookmark 15km past the gate/station, it won’t matter because the player cannot land within 15km of the object the bookmark is near. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-believe-warp-to-zero-destroyed-eve-we-should-allow-indterdictor-ships-to-operate-in-low-sec/198622.md?page=8)