# I gave EVE a try --cannot recommend to new players **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 12, 2020, 8:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996 "2020-08-12T08:35:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/203 "2020-08-15T21:49:26Z")
> [@Oscar\_Class](#): > > so i give to you real sample how jita market crush any newplayer… > atm cheapest gila 160.800.000 isk at jita. > cheapest gila bpc 140.000.000 isk > mats cost for gila 12.000.000 isk… > so you produce a gila 152 million isk. selling price 161.. profit 9 million? nope… for a new player %10 broker fee and taxes… newbro will lost 5 million isk because he try to produce a item… Econ degree chiming in. In any system where production is trivial, raw resources have higher value than end products because raw resources are more versatile than end products. In real life, the extraction/processing of raw resources adds value to a business. That is followed by the further addition of value during the manufacturing process for the end product, with a final value addition taking place at the distribution/selling stage. In EVE, no value is added during the production stage, because production has virtually no cost, and takes very little time. It’s not like a bunch of players need to toil away for hours to manually attach armor plates to ship hulls in the same sort of monotonous process like mining asteroids. Minerals can be turned into _anything_ in very short order, and often take up less space than finished products. That’s why they cost _more_ than finished products, minus the premiums paid for using the market. For a good example of this, read about Star Trek. They have the technology to “replicate” anything, including cooked food, and the baseline materials act almost like a special currency in that universe (alongside energy). A bunch of raw atoms have _much_ more utility than a plate of synthesized eggs and bacon. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > The second you provide proof and ask for a rebuttal, he’ll tell you to “shove it” and will disappear from the forums for a few days. > > Enough of your BS lies already, I don’t disappear from the forum for days. Also you’ve never once provided any Official proof to back up any of your biased prejudiced viewpoints. > > And lastly yes, go shove it.. I wasn’t talking to you. Shouldn’t you be busy sending rambling letters directly to customer support about each and every one of my posts so that I’m banned from EVE, like you said you did? Get to it, since I have a full day of posting here ahead of me. You might want to brew a pot of coffee, or something. I swear, you’re like a big, colicky baby, showing up in set intervals to rail against the fun-having regulars, before slamming the curtains, and retreating into your hole to fume and rage in the darkness. There’s a _reason_ why you’re the most disliked person on these forums, and it has nothing to do with regard to your stance about game mechanics, but the fact that you’re _impossible to interact with_ - toxicity personified. Your only support comes from two known super-trolls, and a few serial whiners. What a disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 9:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/204 "2020-08-15T21:52:06Z")
> [@Ashreya\_Faraday](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > But the second you start speaking out against the _presence_ of PvP on _principle_ , and ask for it to be restricted/removed so that you can engage in your preferred activities without the potential to be disrupted by other players, we will _crucify_ you. > > > > As long as you can make this distinction, and deal with the game according to its intent, you will do well, even if you never attack another player. > > I did cover this in an earlier post. But since you apparently didn’t read it… > > > [@Ashreya\_Faraday](#): > > > > I will be honest and say that I absolutely detest PVP and will do everything I can to avoid it - but I know Eve is a PVP game and I realise that I am at risk of being involved in it every time I undock. I do not, however, hate PVPers; I respect that they are enjoying the game their way and are doing nothing wrong. And when I do eventually become involved in it, because I will, no question, then I will try and learn from it and adapt. (After I’ve yelled a few choice swearwords at my computer for a few mins! lol!) > > There. 🙂 > > Edited to add: I say again, I’m referring to combat since some people on this forum seem to need that distinction. My apologies if I missed/forgot. I do vaguely remember replying to you before, and it was an agreeable reply. Please interpret my recent post as more of a generalization. As PvPers, we do _not_ inherently hate anyone who doesn’t want to do PvP, either now, or ever. We are only against the people who come into EVE, and try to get it changed into a completely different sort of game than the one it was originally developed as. ---
**Author:** ![Ashreya\_Faraday](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ashreya_faraday/32/220029_2.png) [@Ashreya\_Faraday](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ashreya_Faraday)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/205 "2020-08-15T21:54:57Z")
No problem. I’m not out to try and change anything. I like things how they are going for me just now and if that changes then I’ll try and learn and adapt. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 9:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/206 "2020-08-15T21:58:03Z")
> [@Ashreya\_Faraday](#): > > Curious, I’ve honestly never had to explain this in any other game forum. EVE players are special. 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/207 "2020-08-15T22:05:58Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > In EVE, no value is added during the production stage, because production has virtually no cost I would like to read your entire post, but DAMN! this is just so wrong. It must be addressed immediately There are costs and risks and consequences for pretty much anything you do in the game. They are usually not negligible. Run a mission in your Raven. You could lose it. Mine in your Retriever. You could lose it. Move products in your freighter. You could lose it. And people do for various reasons. To say that a Rorqual has “trivial” production overhead is ignoring . . . the Rorqual . . . among other things. How can you be this wrong? Don’t you feel ashamed? ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/208 "2020-08-15T22:11:22Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I wasn’t talking to you. Liar, you posted your reply directly about me. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > There’s a _reason_ why you’re the most disliked person on these forums, And again you lie. You have 1.4k likes received whereas I have 7.6k likes received. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Your only support comes from two known super-trolls, and a few serial whiners. Obviously you don’t even know how to look at stats before posting… Course looking at your stats shows your most loyal supporter is the biggest troll on these forums… ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/209 "2020-08-15T22:13:32Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > In EVE, no value is added during the production stage, because production has virtually no cost > > I would like to read your entire post, but DAMN! this is just so wrong. It must be addressed immediately > > There are costs and risks and consequences for pretty much anything you do in the game. They are usually not negligible. Run a mission in your Raven. You could lose it. Mine in your Retriever. You could lose it. Move products in your freighter. You could lose it. And people do for various reasons. To say that a Rorqual has “trivial” production overhead is ignoring . . . the Rorqual . . . among other things. > How can you be this wrong? Don’t you feel ashamed? You should read the entire post before commenting. That’s just common courtesy, if nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/210 "2020-08-15T22:16:48Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Liar, you posted your reply directly about me. Nope, she replied to me. She wasn’t talking to you. The reply was about you, not to you. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/211 "2020-08-15T22:18:32Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > I wasn’t talking to you. > > Liar, you posted your reply directly to me. Nope, I was replying to Jonah. Good try, though. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > There’s a _reason_ why you’re the most disliked person on these forums, > > And again you lie. You have 1.4k likes received whereas I have 7.6k likes received. So you want to turn this into a “likes” war? lmao You’ve been here for a thousand days, while I’ve been here for a hundred. Good try, though. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > Your only support comes from two known super-trolls, and a few serial whiners. > > Obviously you don’t even know how to look at stats before posting… > > Course looking at your stats shows your most loyal supporter is the biggest troll on these forums… Do you have even a _shred_ of self-respect? ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/212 "2020-08-15T22:29:28Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > You should read the entire post before commenting. I don’t really need to read an entire post to address one, specific point. Unless you are some sort of poet, you made your case (and your mistake) with the sentence I quoted. It stands on its own and my response to it stands, as is. But I did go ahead and read the rest of your post and I can say with 100% certainty that it is counted entirely as part of the production cost of that one sentence I quoted. > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > In EVE, no value is added during the production stage, because production has virtually no cost > > There are costs and risks and consequences for pretty much anything you do in the game. They are usually not negligible. Run a mission in your Raven. You could lose it. Mine in your Retriever. You could lose it. Move products in your freighter. You could lose it. And people do for various reasons. To say that a Rorqual has “trivial” production overhead is ignoring . . . the Rorqual . . . among other things. > How can you be this wrong? Don’t you feel ashamed? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/213 "2020-08-15T22:35:22Z")
I can’t really discuss this further with you, since you’ve completely misread and misunderstood my post (possibly even willingly). But do let me know how popping a 200,000 ISK BPC copy into a production station, paying a tiny fee, and doing something else for 3 hours “adds value” to something like building a battleship. ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/214 "2020-08-15T22:36:55Z")
Time is an input. You don’t get the utility until you pay the time. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/215 "2020-08-15T22:37:47Z")
So in your eyes, waiting for something to get built automatically adds value? Okay… ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/216 "2020-08-15T22:42:53Z")
There is definitely at least opportunity cost, since you could be building something else in that manufacturing slot, yours and the manufacturing facility’s slot. But, originally, you were referring to producing veldspar and other raw materials. What you have essentially said is that putting the veldspar in your ore hold doesn’t add any value, in which case, I would like you to take a trip with me to a null sec system to sell you entire asteroid fields of rare minerals. I’ll be in an Ibis, but I suggest you take something larger and with mining capabilities. Do you concede the point? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/217 "2020-08-15T22:53:39Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > There is definitely at least opportunity cost, since you could be building something else in that manufacturing slot, yours and the manufacturing facility’s slot. That’s not of any significance due to the way the game is _currently_ structured. Pre-citadels, maybe, but not now. And in fact, there was a slightly higher margin on basic T1 goods in the years before citadels were a thing. > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > But, originally, you were referring to producing veldspar and other raw materials. What you have essentially said is that putting the veldspar in your ore hold doesn’t add any value, in which case, I would like you to take a trip with me to a null sec system to sell you entire asteroid fields of rare minerals. I’ll be in an Ibis, but I suggest you take something larger and with mining capabilities. > > Do you concede the point? This is literally proof that you should make an effort to read something before responding to it. I was speaking _specifically_ about the **production** stage of the industrial process, and not the extraction or retail stages. Here: > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > In real life, the extraction/processing of raw resources adds value to a business. **That is followed by the further addition of value during the manufacturing process for the end product** , with a final value addition taking place at the distribution/selling stage. > > **In EVE, no value is added during the production stage, because production has virtually no cost, and takes very little time**. It’s not like a bunch of players need to toil away for hours to manually attach armor plates to ship hulls in the same sort of monotonous process like mining asteroids. I highlighted the critical parts of the post. Please read next time instead of just skimming, or skipping entirely. Please! ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 11:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/218 "2020-08-15T23:05:25Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Econ degree chiming in. In economics, production does not refer exclusively to manufacturing. Now, since you want to play word games, lets figure out what you actually mean by “production”. Does production refer exclusively to the time interval in which the game is “making” the product? i.e. not the time required to acquire the material or the time to transport the material to the manufacturing site? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 11:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/219 "2020-08-15T23:08:52Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > In economics, production does not refer exclusively to manufacturing. Now, since you want to play word games, lets figure out what you actually mean by “production”. > Does production refer exclusively to the time interval in which the game is “making” the product? i.e. not the time required to acquire the material or the time to transport the material to the manufacturing site? Correct. Mining/Extraction → Manufacturing/Production → Transportation/Retail While I can apologize for not making my verbage clear enough, you are still in the wrong for starting off by saying that I’m wrong and that you didn’t even have to read my entire post to know it, instead of asking for further clarity. As an aside: in real life there’s also marketing and product support, but in EVE those two things are meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 11:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/220 "2020-08-15T23:11:04Z")
Would you pay 10 extra ISK to avoid having to wait 3 hours to produce a battleship? That is to say, would you pay 10 ISK for the production of a battleship to be instantaneous, rather than having to wait through the manufacturing interval? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 11:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/221 "2020-08-15T23:14:13Z")
Well, 10 extra ISK is essentially nothing, so yes, I would pay it. Would I pay an extra 50,000 ISK? Probably not, because the EVE market is saturated anyway, and having stuff come out of the oven faster doesn’t matter, since I’m not making any sort of premium from the manufacturing/production phase of the industrial process (in fact, the original argument was that because manufacturing/production are trivial, turning minerals into goods can actually result in a _loss_ compared to selling the resources raw, because raw resources have more versatility and utility). ---
**Author:** ![Astutemaximus\_Nardieu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/astutemaximus_nardieu/32/254576_2.png) [@Astutemaximus\_Nardieu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Astutemaximus_Nardieu)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 12:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/222 "2020-08-16T00:24:10Z")
I have been playing for just under a year now and in my experience, out of the 30k players online at peak, I’d estimate that there’s approximately 5k veteran players with alts. This makes up around 10k-15k of the playerbase. The rest is new to medium age players like myself. Some EVE fans don’t like hearing this but it is what it is. Anyone who claims this game is attracting and just as importantly, retaining new players is deluding himself/herself [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996.md?page=12)