# I gave EVE a try --cannot recommend to new players **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 12, 2020, 8:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996 "2020-08-12T08:35:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/163 "2020-08-15T08:00:04Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > I hope you guys aren’t referring to that BS presentation by CCP Rise from 5 yrs ago. During their 2019 Invasion World Tour, CCP Hilmar recently updated their stats on New Player Retention and even admitted there’s a major problem with it. The #1 indicator of whether a player made it into that group of 323 at the 90 day mark is whether they had their ship destroyed or not. That’s also a more recent CCP stat, that still perfectly fits with the idea that PVP is not the largest reason people leave. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/164 "2020-08-15T08:09:48Z")
CCP can verify my account history. I was bored out of my mind. I didn’t like EVE. I was ready to quit. I got wrecked. I started killing people and never looked back. Carebears cry a lot, but the real players want to PvP, and carebear safety nets ruin the game for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/165 "2020-08-15T08:12:58Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > CCP Hilmar is the one who said there’s a problem with New Player Retention. CCP Hilmar likes to cover his own arse, like that time he got an employee to write an abject apology for his hubris over the Incarna backlash; and then proceeded to direct CCP down the road he said they weren’t taking. > Can you link some Official game stats to show that? No I can’t link official stats, I can only reference 3rd party studies. Which you’ll ignore, like you did the last time we had this dance. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/166 "2020-08-15T08:17:44Z")
1. Nope, I was referring to CCP presentations where it was stated that “crime” (like ganking) was usually not the reason of quitting EvE after the first day(s) of playing or after the first sub period. 2. Interesting as that slide you posted may be it shows no context. Hence it is usually shown while being its own reference point, which is not the correct thing to do. 3. More relevant i.e., more correct would be the **evolution of “retention”** _over the years_, with an added study of the **changes in** New Player **Expectations** (I suspect that potential new players from other generations than the ones who started on EvE in 2008 and subsequent years have a very different gaming background, PC experience, etc ). 4. I am not aware of any “exit polls” for alpha accounts. All we see is the occasional thread here or on reddit if they don’t manage to just “go quietly”. 5. As long as there is no carefully designed study of this matter people will continue to draw lines in any direction starting from a single reference point for whatever reason/grudge/frustration. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/167 "2020-08-15T08:47:12Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > Can you link some Official game stats to show that? > > No I can’t link official stats, I can only reference 3rd party studies. > > Which you’ll ignore, like you did the last time we had this dance. The second you provide proof and ask for a rebuttal, he’ll tell you to “shove it” and will disappear from the forums for a few days. There is historical precedent for this. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/168 "2020-08-15T08:49:00Z")
You don’t need to prove that PvP attracts players. The PvE/Mining aspects of the game are absolutely trash, it’s obvious the appeal of EVE is the PvP. ---
**Author:** ![Cannon\_Fodder\_Jane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cannon_fodder_jane/32/223045_2.png) [@Cannon\_Fodder\_Jane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cannon_Fodder_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/169 "2020-08-15T08:57:07Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > hope you guys aren’t referring to that BS presentation by CCP Rise from 5 yrs ago No, I’m referring to my own observations during play as a new player and understanding of all the material I’ve been reading on EVE over the course of a decade. The statement “EVE isn’t for everyone” is true as far the amount of in-game and off-game commitment it demands on players. Also, the constant new changes/tweeks and new content brought to the game means that new players not only have to learn what’s going on now but also have to reference that with what was before. The amount of information to be familiar with is gargantuan and the new player willing to take his time to go research it all in order to make better in-game decisions will stick with EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Serene\_Repose](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/serene_repose/32/384960_2.png) [@Serene\_Repose](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Serene_Repose)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/170 "2020-08-15T10:03:53Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > I am a bit perplexed by this. Criminals are players too. Why should they not be treated as a “regular” player. Because THEN they suffer no consequences from being a criminal…making them normal. Why do gankers (risk averse people who attack folks that can’t shoot back and laughingly call it PvP) insist they “live the life” of pirates, but get to prance around so-called sovereign systems (Amarr/Gallente/Minmatar/Caldari) after having committed crimes against their sovereignty. What’s with this “timer”. Woo hoo! Scary, a timer! (Sit here till you learn to behave!). REAL pirates were hunted down and hung by national Navies (Spain, France, England) and refused admittance into towns and cities, forcing them to live on deserted islands…with each other…and no soap…but here? Nooooooo, our criminals and “pirates” want to be coddled and hugged (then call others “carebears”) Don’t worry, your convoluted explanation isn’t necessary, I’ve heard the bilge repeated by ■■■■■■■■ artists much more capable than any of this current forum warrior crowd. And…you _had_ to ask. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/171 "2020-08-15T10:14:48Z")
> [@Serene\_Repose](#): > > Because THEN they suffer no consequences from being a criminal…making them normal. They are normal. They’re playing the game within the ruleset layed down by CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/172 "2020-08-15T11:18:42Z")
> [@Serene\_Repose](#): > > they suffer no consequences from being a criminal Does miners ever face consequences of exploiting and destroying the environment? Won’t anyone think of the rocks!? ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 11:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/173 "2020-08-15T11:24:00Z")
> [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](#): > > Won’t anyone think of the rocks!? Code should rebrand themselves as an environmental pressure group. Alas, I can’t think of any witty names at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Ashreya\_Faraday](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ashreya_faraday/32/220029_2.png) [@Ashreya\_Faraday](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ashreya_Faraday)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 11:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/174 "2020-08-15T11:39:00Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > The PvE/Mining aspects of the game are absolutely trash, it’s obvious the appeal of EVE is the PvP. As a new player I have to 100% disagree with this. As stated in my earlier post, I _detest_ PVP and will do all I can to avoid it wherever possible. I don’t feel the PvE/Mining aspects of the game are trash at all although I do realise I am only a month into playing so I have no idea what it was like before. I really enjoy this side of the game and this is what attracted me to the game. I almost didn’t bother trying the game because I knew it was PvP but I’ve played other PvP games where that side can be avoided so I tried this on that premise. So to state that “it’s obvious the appeal of EVE is the PvP” is your opinion and doesn’t speak for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/175 "2020-08-15T11:41:11Z")
wait till you realize that mission running and mining **ARE** PvP. ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/176 "2020-08-15T11:41:46Z")
> [@Ashreya\_Faraday](#): > > So to state that “it’s obvious the appeal of EVE is the PvP” is your opinion and doesn’t speak for everyone. The majority find eve boring. People getting into the game, are initially faced with PvE and mining. There often is a longer road until they get to the PvP, unless they already know someone playing the game. This is why the retention rates are as they are. So while PvP doesn’t appeal to everyone, it is the most appealing aspect of EVE for the majority of players and is what keeps most people playing. ---
**Author:** ![Ashreya\_Faraday](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ashreya_faraday/32/220029_2.png) [@Ashreya\_Faraday](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ashreya_Faraday)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/177 "2020-08-15T11:49:06Z")
> [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > wait till you realize that mission running and mining **ARE** PvP. I didn’t say they weren’t so I’m not sure what your point is. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 11:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/178 "2020-08-15T11:59:35Z")
> [@Ashreya\_Faraday](#): > > I didn’t say they weren’t so I’m not sure what your point is. Most people don’t read and reply to posts here. They scan for trigger words and reflexively bang out tired clichés. ---
**Author:** ![J\_Poll](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/j_poll/32/228940_2.png) [@J\_Poll](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/J_Poll)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/179 "2020-08-15T12:16:33Z")
> [@Ashreya\_Faraday](#): > > As a new player I have to 100% disagree with this. > > As stated in my earlier post, I _detest_ PVP and will do all I can to avoid it wherever possible. > > I don’t feel the PvE/Mining aspects of the game are trash at all although I do realise I am only a month into playing so I have no idea what it was like before. I really enjoy this side of the game and this is what attracted me to the game. > > I almost didn’t bother trying the game because I knew it was PvP but I’ve played other PvP games where that side can be avoided so I tried this on that premise. So to state that “it’s obvious the appeal of EVE is the PvP” is your opinion and doesn’t speak for everyone. Actually, it does. If you are mining, you are mining a finite asteroid. By mining it, you are taking it away from other players. Then when you are selling the ores, minerals or products, you are competing against other players trying to do the same. With missions, the same can be said about the LP store items. When selling those, you are again competing on the market with other players. PvP is much more then combat, Player vs Player happens also behind the scenes…in ways that don’t involve guns, but can hurt a lot too in the wallet section 😉 ---
**Author:** ![J\_Poll](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/j_poll/32/228940_2.png) [@J\_Poll](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/J_Poll)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 12:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/180 "2020-08-15T12:19:34Z")
> [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](#): > > People getting into the game and are initially faced with PvE and mining. There often is a longer road until they get to the PvP, unless they already know someone playing the game. This is why the retention rates are as they are. > > So while PvP doesn’t appeal to everyone, it is the most appealing aspect ev EVE for the majority of players and is what keeps most people playing. This is 100% the case for most players. Tell me, when was the last time you saw some article when an asteroid belt was cleared out on gaming news websites? Most “headline” news articles about EVE are about the huge fleet fights, numbering thousands of people fighting. This is what sparks a lot of people’s interest in the game, specially if they like to PvP. What they don’t tell you about, is that the road to those fights is not instant and takes time. And that those types of fights also don’t happen all day, every day. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/181 "2020-08-15T12:38:55Z")
you said you destest PvP, that was my point. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 12:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996/182 "2020-08-15T12:41:11Z")
here is a reflex for you Foggy… If you do not have a clue about things said, and still wish to place your own misbegotten input that is wrong…ask a question or just keep your pie hole shut. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-gave-eve-a-try-cannot-recommend-to-new-players/259996.md?page=10)