# \[I-RED\] Formal Inquiry to Federation Senate **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [May 16, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678 "2018-05-16T16:25:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CaseyLP](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caseylp/32/291944_2.png) [@CaseyLP](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CaseyLP)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/21 "2018-05-17T20:12:42Z")
You speak of propaganda, but that seems to be the only thing that ever comes from your mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/22 "2018-05-17T20:15:08Z")
> [@CaseyLP](#): > > You speak of propaganda, but that seems to be the only thing that ever comes from your mouth. I speak of knowledge and common sense, that even you should be able to understand. At least I thought so. But it seems I’ve made a mistake and overestimated your abilites. Oh well… ---
**Author:** ![CaseyLP](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caseylp/32/291944_2.png) [@CaseyLP](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CaseyLP)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/23 "2018-05-17T20:16:30Z")
Knowledge and common sense, yet you would rather full scale war before peace talks? That is not the voice of reason, that is the voice of a militant. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/24 "2018-05-17T20:17:49Z")
> [@CaseyLP](#): > > Knowledge and common sense, yet you would rather full scale war before peace talks? That is not the voice of reason, that is the voice of a militant. I was talking about that crap when you started publically accusing me in being a “terrorist” and following “personal objectives”. That is 100% gallente propaganda, slanders and public lies. It has nothing to do with war and peace. Or it is a typical gallente bigotry, “I don’t like your point of view, and thus I’ll start calling you names”. In any way, I am completely not interested in discussing war and peace with people of your qualities. The only thing I will discuss with you is your behavior. ---
**Author:** ![CaseyLP](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caseylp/32/291944_2.png) [@CaseyLP](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CaseyLP)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/25 "2018-05-17T20:23:23Z")
You would group our whole race into your stereotypes for your own personal bigotry, not even I will say Caldari bigotry because there is no such thing, I know honorable Caldari, though I can not say I would include you in that list. It is _you_ who will not listen to reason, it is _you_ that spreads your propaganda. There may be peace between the Gallente and Caldari yet, but not as long as people like _you_ oppose it. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/26 "2018-05-17T20:35:12Z")
> [@CaseyLP](#): > > It is you who will not listen to reason, it is you that spreads your propaganda. I am open to voice of reason, but I am not open to your bigotry and slanders. > [@CaseyLP](#): > > You would group our whole race into your stereotypes for your own personal bigotry Unlike you, I don’t have bigotry. I am insulting you, because you dare to publically spread slanders about me. Bigotry means what you do: insulting others when you don’t agree with other’s point of view. And if you would foolishly dare to claim that your words about me is “opinion”, I’d just laught at your face like at clown, because opinions about other persons voiced in open are personal attacks, and if they are straightforward wrong opinions - they are slanders (exactly what you did). As for “stereotypes”, we Caldari call it analyzing, generalizing and making conclusions. If you don’t like it - it’s not my problem. Objective reality exists disregarding what you think about it. You can yell, you can scream, you can cry with foam at the mouth, it won’t change things as they are. > [@CaseyLP](#): > > I know honorable Caldari, though I can not say I would include you in that list. Then you clearly just another ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![CaseyLP](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caseylp/32/291944_2.png) [@CaseyLP](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CaseyLP)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/27 "2018-05-17T20:49:09Z")
It is obvious to me that you can not see reason after all, you do not know compromise either. Since you do not seem capable of that, I will take the high road here and end this argument. Let cooler heads prevail, perhaps that will work, though from your history I’m not optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/28 "2018-05-17T20:58:17Z")
> [@CaseyLP](#): > > It is obvious to me that you can not see reason after all, you do not know compromise either. I see no reason in your words simply because you provide none. > [@CaseyLP](#): > > Since you do not seem capable of that, I will take the high road here and end this argument. Let cooler heads prevail, perhaps that will work, though from your history I’m not optimistic. My head is pretty much cool, unlike your, a bigot, who insults Caldari officer just for her protecting her home from invaders. I have long ago learned that negotiations with gallente is a waste of time. They can’t reason, they can’t listen to reason. The only way to protect our State is simply to shoot invaders down and do not make any compromises or treaties. The only thing you were not wrong about me is that I am a militant. But I am a rational and efficient militant. And I am proud of it - State War Academy is the most prestigious educational facility in the cluster. Maybe you shall meet me in space sometimes. I find it easier to explain my position in space to people who can’t understand things with their brains. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/29 "2018-05-17T23:20:24Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > The State is being attacked by foreigners. The State is not being attacked by foreigners. The State is participating in a long-term live-fire combat wargame. This wargame is being conducted under CONCORD’s oversight, and includes the Federation. All CONCORD signatories are willing participants to these wargames, and all territory under contest was explicitly selected for the wargames _by the signatory that held it at the beginning of the wargames_. The State is not under attack. The State is voluntarily participating in exercises. If the State so chose, it could end those exercises at any time. In this event, contested systems originally held by the State would almost certainly revert to State control. The fact that the State casts this exercise as an actual war means only that the State, like the other three participating signatories, is _lying_ to its citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Yoshitaka\_Moromuo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yoshitaka_moromuo/32/66710_2.png) [@Yoshitaka\_Moromuo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yoshitaka_Moromuo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/30 "2018-05-17T23:45:44Z")
And so you choose to claim I, and others of the State who made the same choice I did, are not Caldari. Combat is far from my strongest area; it’s production and research. I looked to the stars as my ancestors did themselves, and now find myself among them. I choose to build up, rather than tear down. I proudly consider myself Ualaa; proudly Liberal and looking forward to what the future can bring - rather than locking myself to the prejudices of the past. ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/31 "2018-05-18T00:32:02Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > because opinions about other persons voiced in open are personal attacks So if I said “I think Diana Kim is a lovely girl with a cute button nose”, would that be a personal attack? ---
**Author:** ![Nomistrav](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nomistrav/32/278296_2.png) [@Nomistrav](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nomistrav)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 2:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/32 "2018-05-18T02:33:59Z")
Yet again, the matters of the Intaki are out-voiced by obnoxious, loud narcissists. This sort of dialogue is why the Intaki Secessionists and the Syndicate alike are keen on distancing themselves from both the Federation and the Caldari. The Federation is too enraptured in its own paranoia, looking to scapegoat its member-states for collusion with their own shadows. The Caldari are either too interested in how they can use us to further hostilities with the Federation or pray upon our people as a target of their amoral capitalist schemes. Such is why we have no place with either. When you put our interests and well-being at heart - pray tell for the first time in your lives - then perhaps we Intaki may be more easily convinced your sides are worth taking _ **again** _. Be it disenfranchisement by the Federation, rampant persecution by the Caldari, or being exiled from either, we have seen what rewards await us when we involve ourselves in your petty squabbles. To put it simply: We are not your bootlicks, and we are certainly not your cassus belli. Take this fractious pomposity elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Hinkelmann](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alex_hinkelmann/32/339953_2.png) [@Alex\_Hinkelmann](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alex_Hinkelmann)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 4:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/33 "2018-05-18T04:42:46Z")
Ignore the blundering rhetoric of those few obnoxious voices. As they’re merely white noise, and have no piece in play when it comes to this matter. To those who support the removal of this archaic restraint, join Ishukone-Raata in our efforts - petition the Federation Senate or submit a formal endorsement to our inquiry. ---
**Author:** ![Makoto\_Priano](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makoto_priano/32/383919_2.png) [@Makoto\_Priano](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makoto_Priano)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 5:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/34 "2018-05-18T05:34:08Z")
ARC supports the rights of both the Syndicate and the Intaki people generally to self-determination, and so hopes for speedy resolution of I-RED’s inquiry. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/35 "2018-05-18T09:37:01Z")
> [@Kalaratiri](#): > > So if I said “I think Diana Kim is a lovely girl with a cute button nose”, would that be a personal attack? Yes. I am a soldier of Caldari State and officer, not some sort of “lovely girl”. > [@Arrendis](#): > > The State is not being attacked by foreigners. They will stop being foreigners if we conquer the Federation. But I prefer it being destroyed. We don’t need that sort of citizens. > [@Arrendis](#): > > The State is voluntarily participating in exercises. That is not exercise, when you people are murdered by invaders, and not just combatants. The world is not limited by your capsule, and the war is not just one egger shooting another. > [@Yoshitaka\_Moromuo](#): > > And so you choose to claim I, and others of the State who made the same choice I did, are not Caldari. Combat is far from my strongest area; it’s production and research. I looked to the stars as my ancestors did themselves, and now find myself among them. > > I choose to build up, rather than tear down. I proudly consider myself Ualaa; proudly Liberal and looking forward to what the future can bring - rather than locking myself to the prejudices of the past. Many Caldari people choose to build up. The State is at War, and we need all the help we can get. We need ships, we need weapons, we need ammunition. Caldari help each other, Caldari help those, who fight, or those, who suffered from gallentean attacks and atrocities. Caldari help building houses for those, whose homes were burned by gallente, Caldari grow food, Caldari tend to wounded. But Caldari do not simply “walk away” from the war, when their brethern suffer. For Caldari the war is not over, while there is at least one gallentean with weapon in hand, killing or torturing someone. Being Caldari means being with Caldari. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 9:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/36 "2018-05-18T09:40:51Z")
> [@Alex\_Hinkelmann](#): > > To those who support the removal of this archaic restraint, join Ishukone-Raata in our efforts - petition the Federation Senate or submit a formal endorsement to our inquiry. I’d like to see that restraint removed. It’s one of reasons - though quite minor in comparison with numerous others - while I so hate Federal regime. But I am Caldari, not gallente, to support resolving this issue by participating in internal gallente politics. For people of Caldari upbringing and Caldari way of life such intervention is a disgrace, and I’d better die than disgrace myself or good name of Caldari. ---
**Author:** ![Yoshitaka\_Moromuo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yoshitaka_moromuo/32/66710_2.png) [@Yoshitaka\_Moromuo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yoshitaka_Moromuo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/37 "2018-05-18T12:09:27Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Many Caldari people choose to build up. The State is at War, and we need all the help we can get. We need ships, we need weapons, we need ammunition. Caldari help each other, Caldari help those, who fight, or those, who suffered from gallentean attacks and atrocities. Caldari help building houses for those, whose homes were burned by gallente, Caldari grow food, Caldari tend to wounded. > > But Caldari do not simply “walk away” from the war, when their brethern suffer. For Caldari the war is not over, while there is at least one gallentean with weapon in hand, killing or torturing someone. > > Being Caldari means being with Caldari. I’d say that’s an exceedingly narrow view… but you’d simply counter with another statement such as this. You’re hinging this on support of a war that I cannot see myself supporting anymore, and that, I can never agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/38 "2018-05-18T12:32:52Z")
> [@Yoshitaka\_Moromuo](#): > > I’d say that’s an exceedingly narrow view… but you’d simply counter with another statement such as this. You’re hinging this on support of a war that I cannot see myself supporting anymore, and that, I can never agree with. Counter. Pfft. Why I would even counter that. You can think whatever you want. It’s just what you imagine to be narrow view, I see as precision. What you imagine to be “hinging the war”, I see as supporting the State and all people who are Caldari. You see, I care about the State. I care about Caldari. I care about what Caldari think. And I will put my life on the line to protect any and every Caldari. But I do not care about you and your ideas. Keep them to yourself and don’t bother me anymore. You are nothing and nobody to me. I don’t need anything from you and your ilk. ---
**Author:** ![Yoshitaka\_Moromuo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yoshitaka_moromuo/32/66710_2.png) [@Yoshitaka\_Moromuo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yoshitaka_Moromuo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/39 "2018-05-18T13:39:50Z")
When you regularly insert your view into matters unrelated to it, you obviously show that you care, even if that caring means you care enough to argue against it. You are Patriot, I am Liberal. Both are Caldari, no matter what you say. ---
**Author:** ![Tyrel\_Toov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyrel_toov/32/387953_2.png) [@Tyrel\_Toov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tyrel_Toov)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678/40 "2018-05-18T14:01:53Z")
That would fall under “lies and slander”. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-red-formal-inquiry-to-federation-senate/76678.md?page=3)