# I regret to inform that we still don't die enough **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pvp\ **Created:** [November 15, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984 "2021-11-15T16:34:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/321 "2021-11-26T21:25:05Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > If they get a power core back, it’s only their own power core. They make nothing on that. So they still lose the 50% of destroyed value. If they’re declared repeat-criminal standing by the persistent criminal rating system, they don’t get insurance either. More value lost see this is the problem bit. the value isn’t there for normal players. We all know solo gankers are rare beasts (they exist) but we know many gankers multibox. So are you ever going to catch that one ganker with a bounty alone? unlikely. He will have alts on grid. So what kind of ship do i need to bring on grid to take on the multiboxer. A blinged out cruiser? At 30mill? At 50mill? 100mill? And if I’m risking that amount of isk a 3million bounty just doesn’t cut it (theres no guarentee id have bounties for everyone of these alts). And when you factor in that you need to track this player down and get things set up for an engagement it gets worse. It could take hours to find them…and the risk on top. Nobody will interact with this for 3mill and standings apart from the players already creating anti ganking content. I mean a player will make more mining and thats just wrong for the level of risk. And if nobody is going to interact with it then what does it change. Its just another broken mechanic on top of the rest of the broken mechanics. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/322 "2021-11-26T21:34:58Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > If destiny were to gank you and get a bounty. How is it worth it for me to track her down, wait patiently for the opportunity and then risk my own ship in an engagement against a competent pvp pilot for………3million isk. Well first of all don’t bring me into this spaz-out. :V Second, aside from the fact that I wouldn’t be flying a 6-million ship all the time (although some career gankers might) so that my bounty is essentially worthless, we come to the problem of there literally not being anyone with the stones to collect it aside from other players like _myself_, and most of us are friends or at least don’t get in each other’s way, aside from whatever happens on the 4-4 undock meat grinder, which is easily avoided. I absolutely **loved** the old bounty system because I got to fly around with like five billion on my head which freaked carebears the ■■■■ out, and no one did a damn thing about it despite there being free kill rights available like a good third of the time. The only thing I _couldn’t_ do was fly a non-combat ship, which I didn’t do _anyway_ since I had wars up 100% of the time. And I needed an alt to shop at the hub, because the killing there is indiscriminate since you’re unlikely to be friends with _all_ of the factions hovering about. I’ve posted about this before. Anyone is able to test this very easily. Get a decent combat ship, suspect-flag yourself, and just fly around random space. **No one will do anything.** * * * As an aside, one possible solution to low bounty values I’ve thought about is offloading some ship/module stats to implants. If what today is a 3% damage implant gave 13%, and that extra 10% was taken from other stats, gankers would _likely_ use them, making pod kills more valuable. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 9:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/323 "2021-11-26T21:42:20Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > So what kind of ship do i need to bring on grid to take on the multiboxer. A blinged out cruiser? At 30mill? At 50mill? 100mill? And if I’m risking that amount of isk a 3million bounty Nah you’re just being obtuse now. The proposition is “50% of destroyed value, plus a power core, plus drops”, not 3 million. I certainly don’t need a 100 mill blinged out cruiser to tackle somebody in a gankfit Catalyst. Anyway, you had your chance for discourse, moving on. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I’ve posted about this before. Anyone is able to test this very easily. Get a decent combat ship, suspect-flag yourself, and just fly around random space. **No one will do anything.** Mostly true, because _there is no economic incentive for doing so_. Tell you what. Fit yourself in a cheap, heavily tanked hauler with 30k+ EHP and no cargo, and fly around in high sec. Guess what? **No gankers will do anything**. Because it’s not an economically valid proposition. Make it a valid, paying choice, and you’ll see plenty of bounty hunters. It’s also kinda weird to keep bragging about your wardec and PvP days when you literally haven’t done anything since 2014 and are in a carebear corp. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/324 "2021-11-26T21:50:25Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Nah you’re just being obtuse now. The proposition is “50% of destroyed value, plus a power core”, not 3 million. I certainly don’t need a 100 mill blinged out cruiser to tackle somebody in a gankfit Catalyst. so the ganker is going to be running around in a providence full to the gills with all the good stuff when he has a bounty on his head? He will be flying cheap as they always do. And you have said the bounty is less than 50% of the ship so that gankers cant exploit it. And the 3mill number came from you. Its your figure. I cant be obtuse when i am essentially quoting you. And you don’t accept gankers have alts? and it wouldn’t always be a 1 on 1 fight? Whats the name of that guy that multiboxes the 20alts again? What cost effective fit would you recommend for bounty hunting? Im curious. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Anyway, you had your chance for discourse, moving on. It appears your definition of discourse is “only type stuff that agrees with me”. All good. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 10:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/325 "2021-11-26T22:01:17Z")
How about no. I rather have an intermittent hull module that upon activation, simply could or could not be effective by chance at the very end of hull’s remaining, making it impervious, or not. Like a blockadrnium runnarickus or whatever as simple as any mind could come up to. All this thens’ and then adds up to what should be simple in the first place. Not a real or doable idea, just trying to illustrate that all this thens’ and then, bloats complexity in the form of a specific recipe per race, per ship. No. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 3:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/326 "2021-11-27T03:23:28Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > You forget that getting killed on a gate would be without concord intervention and could be done by anyone, without downsides. If you feel this is a great idea then by all means try and have it implemented, the only ones benefiting from this are the evil pvpers. You’d be opening Pandora’s box with this. I really don’t understand the concern that some innocent person might get zapped at a gate. Don’t they already ?? In my plan, a person would have an entire 2 minutes to get more than a certain distance from the gate. The whole idea is that nobody really has any valid ( non criminal ) reason for hanging around at gates…and that Concord should rightly become suspicious. One could even ( in fact I would ) add an element whereby the time period is dictated by the number of people at the gate. There are many possible variants…but the main benefit is that people would be ‘allowed’ to attack gankers at gates…without Concord repercussion. This would add a whole new dynamic…as gankers would have to turn up ready for a ‘proper’ fight. One would have some splendid battles at stargates…lots of ships destroyed, and salty gankers would be a sight worth seeing too. It can’t be any crazier than the current situation, where gate campers sit right under the nose of Concord and are effectively _protected_ by them. I mean that is on par with the local burglar getting a police escort to your house ! ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 3:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/327 "2021-11-27T03:38:46Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > So what kind of ship do i need to bring on grid to take on the multiboxer. A blinged out cruiser? At 30mill? At 50mill? 100mill? As things currently stand, to take on gankers you have to be prepared to spend more ISK than them. So anti-gank is bound to be an ISK losing activity, done for fun ( well, gankers do it for lulz too ) or some sense of ‘ethics’ or being the ‘good guys’. One does have to wonder just how many Catalysts are sold in Eve every day that the price is so absurdly low. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 3:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/328 "2021-11-27T03:56:45Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > One does have to wonder just how many Catalysts are sold in Eve every day that the price is so absurdly low. They probably manufacture it themselves (how ironic!) ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 6:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/329 "2021-11-27T06:31:00Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Sure enough, once the talk got around to anti-ganking, Gix jumped in to start the troll-spam rolling. So I’m a troll because I posted a guide and disagree with you? Lovely 😃 > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > I don’t reply directly to trolls in general In other words, you can’t handle confrontation and you nope out because you can’t handle debate. Got it 😃 > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > usual high-sec PvPer misconceptions in his post. Oh? I’ve PvPed across all secs 😃 > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > When I said weaksauce PvP in EVE is about hunting easy targets in safe space, I don’t mean high sec is and should be safe. I mean it is **safe for the gankers**. Gankers are very much about avoiding any kind of risk that doesn’t result in them scoring an easy and affordable kill. As should everyone be risk avoidant if they want to stay alive. High sec is safe for all peeps, if they use common sense and standard practices. You push these lies and victimhood upon others, and then wonder why they die? ROFL. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > High sec is safe for most gankers, because they can hang around forever and not be shot at by all the people that are much better at actual combat PvP than they are. It’s safe for gankers because there’s no real incentive to attack them, and there are actual _dis_incentives in the form of Concord and status hits. So starebears cower in high sec specifically because they’re **safe** there. So basically you’re a krab and you’re better huh? 😃 Are the people that are dying better at PvP? Cyilla admitted she can barely keep track of a few belt rats plus overview and somehow the dude burned all the way to her into blaster/scram range and blapped her. But she’s better at PvP? Dudes barely fit a tank, or watch local and d-scan, yet they are better at PvP? ROFL. When you are in a mining/indy/any ship whose role isn’t combat, your weapons become local/d-scan/game sense. I get why you avoid this. You are just enabling people to suck and then claiming its the gankers fault. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Even if they were huntable, there’s no point to it. There’s no payoff. Gankers are looking for either a financial payoff, or are “salt mining”, because they’re the kind of people who need to make someone else angry and upset in order to feel validated. > > Since they’re in cheap, easily replaced ships, with no cargo of value, the loot drops aren’t worth the hunt, and there’s no other standings or benefit to it. The payoff for AGing is the same as ganking. Salt mining. You can gank the gankers, you just choose not to 😃 Interesting how you avoid my pursuit fleet scenario, which actually represents learning how to PvP well in a fleet with doctrine/comms and tactics needed. But then you’d have to admit you’re wrong 😃 > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > You mean like you are quite happy to accept when people are ganked in asteroid belts ? Yet more double standards. > > I mean, why wouldn’t one be getting comments from the likes of you and Gix saying ’ only a fool spends 2 minutes AFK at a stargate '…you know…like you are happy to deride with all those ‘foolish’ miners. Yes, only fools go AFK at easily findable celestials. Go afk at a safe or dock up ROFL. I notice you ducked answering my guide to you for how to AG effectively. Maybe because its all talk? You have all the tools you need to go and fight, but you won’t. Instead you’ll cry to daddy CCP to save you. Save yourself, or don’t. But don’t expect sympathy when you’re too lazy to even attempt to protect yourself. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Your usual evasiveness. I never said there was no inflation. I said ganking is _itself_ a cause of inflation…which is absolutely undeniable. There’s huge number of shield extenders, Damage Control, defensive rigs, etc, fitted in highsec _solely_ because of the threat of ganking. My own Proc cost an extra 14m ISK over and above what it would otherwise do…solely as a result of the threat of ganking. > > Thus, as with most crime, there is an entire industry around it. Gankers don’t just make stuff disappear…they cause new stuff to be generated ! That is infaltionary. Wut. You really do not understand econ and I’m not sure if it makes me pity you or just cackle. I mean both but So what you’re saying is we should have up to BS spawns in HS so that miners are forced to fit tanks. Got it 😃 > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > What a load of nonsense. You are quite happy for miners who sit in asteroid belts to be ‘exploited’…and be ‘massively exploitable’ … yet are suddenly concerned that the same miner sitting near a gate might get zonked by Concord…er…rather than by gate campers. LOL. > > The level of _hypocritical double standards_ just know no bounds. You have zero problem with gankers ‘exploiting’ every loophole they can find to destroy miners, etc…yet are all of a sudden a miner carebear, concerned about those poor, poor, miners being exploited, the minute a solution to gate camping is suggested. How are they being exploited? They are being killed entirely under in-game rules. It is entirely TOS/game supported. What loophole are the gankers exploiting? I gave you the solution to the HS gate camp, which you ducked entirely because it absolutely shreds your narrative and actually means you have to actually play the game. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > You nailed it. The entire reason ganker supporters love to rattle on about lazy miners in their safe comfort zones avoiding risk…is to divert from the fact that ganking is largely for lazy, even safer people who avoid any risk or actual combat PvP. If the miner is a lazy leech off of Eve…the ganker is an even lazier leech off of the miner ( or anyone else ). > > That is why I compare gankers to leeches…and not the magnificent lions they think of themselves as being. It’s not some glorious Attenborough style lions and wildebeast on the African plains. It is leeches vs wildebeast. Lazy, safe, leeches who just sit there and suck the blood off easy targets all day. You know, if you understood PvP or the game, then you’d agree with my recommendations to you. The fact that you duck it, says everything about your narrative. The gankers are the lions. But only because people like you choose to be the wildebeasts. You could choose to be a lion too, but you won’t. You’ll cower in your belt, waiting for a death you could have avoided and then crying to daddy CCP after for your revenge by nerfing a playstyle that’s valid simply because you’re bad at the game. > [@Xucca](#): > > To achieve this, pilots moving stuff should feel more secure. Gankers would not get the same success rate, but more potentials to compensate. Its almost like maybe players should work together. Like maybe start some sort of corporation? Maybe recruiting people diverse interests so that when you haul, they protect and everyone splits the take. Wild idea. > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > It’s all just a form of Malcanis’ law. If you think it benefits casuals or carebears, it benefits pvpers _more_. Pvpers tend to be better informed, better prepared, have more teamwork and pay more attention. It’s in their nature, that is why they are pvpers. As I’ve realized, all these peeps crying about ganking are bad at PvP 😃 > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Ganking isn’t a benefit to the game or the economy, overall. It’s just something that was built into the game (choke point, slow ships, cheap destroyer fits etc.) because EVE was designed by devs who thought hiding in the bushes outside of town in Ultima Online and backstabbing some cleric and looting his life savings was “really engaging gameplay”. It was and is. Some of the best times ever had in UO was when peeps tried to kill you in lvl 3 Shame and the other denizens banded together to stop them. Long lasting game friendships came out of that situation, for both sides. And yes, you learned what to do and what not to do. You want to go deceit bone room on a Saturday night? You’d better roll heavy. You wanna go to Britt x-roads before reset? Roll heavy. You wanna farm Wind garden for hides, pre Lost Lands of course, then you’d better bring friends. Blood ele room? Roll heavy. Yew liches? Roll heavy or have a good recall spot 😃 See, you preach this victimhood mentality. All the tools players need are already in game. Of course you can abide by all of them, know them and still get blapped. That’s life. All PvP is real PvP. From ganking to null sec wars. How you prep for those engagements is everything. I realize most people are bad at PvP, in terms of really understanding it. When you embrace that the frontline is everywhere, you tend to live a lot longer. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Having a 3 million bounty on someone might not make it worth it, but it’s 3 million more worth it than it is right now. Then you add in the concepts of power core drops, bounty hunter standing, and peristent criminal activity counters and you have a viable bounty hunter career in EVE and a whole new form of PvP combat and destruction taking place. > > Of course, the PvP ganker types would do anything to prevent that from happening. I would love for an actual good bounty system to be in place. With LP and its own corps. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > and then turn around a few minutes later and say “but pirates will just farm their bounties”. I mean, they can if they like, but it’s already pointed out that it’s a losing proposition. > > It’s also not a debate on improving quality when you want simplistic, one-sentence solutions to complex problems. How is it losing? They literally will make more money than they lose.. > [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > so in summary. if a bounty system is “worth it” for an average player then it is worth it for a ganker alt. and if its worth it for a ganker alt then nobody else will get to participate in the content as they will farm it themselves. Again you are murdering people out here 😃 You got her dead to rights. She’ll just sling insults at you and dodge now. Its what she does. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I’ve posted about this before. Anyone is able to test this very easily. Get a decent combat ship, suspect-flag yourself, and just fly around random space. **No one will do anything.** Sadly true. Although I was fighting a gnosis with my tristan and started to win, then he dropped his alts on me 😃 Proudest death I’d had in a while. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Nah you’re just being obtuse now. The proposition is “50% of destroyed value, plus a power core, plus drops”, not 3 million. I certainly don’t need a 100 mill blinged out cruiser to tackle somebody in a gankfit Catalyst. > > Anyway, you had your chance for discourse, moving on. No he isn’t. He simply shredding your narrative 😃 > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Mostly true, because _there is no economic incentive for doing so_. Tell you what. Fit yourself in a cheap, heavily tanked hauler with 30k+ EHP and no cargo, and fly around in high sec. Guess what? **No gankers will do anything**. Because it’s not an economically valid proposition. > > Make it a valid, paying choice, and you’ll see plenty of bounty hunters. > > It’s also kinda weird to keep bragging about your wardec and PvP days when you literally haven’t done anything since 2014 and are in a carebear corp. Wut. I literally been killed by a ganker while suspect baiting in me indy. So yes, they will take the bait 😃 > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > As things currently stand, to take on gankers you have to be prepared to spend more ISK than them. So anti-gank is bound to be an ISK losing activity, done for fun ( well, gankers do it for lulz too ) or some sense of ‘ethics’ or being the ‘good guys’. > > One does have to wonder just how many Catalysts are sold in Eve every day that the price is so absurdly low. No you don’t. I already outlined fits that are just as cheap as catas and can effectively stop them. You ducked the entire post 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 7:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/330 "2021-11-27T07:50:34Z")
So in the context of my post do you think a 3mil bounty is enough? ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 7:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/331 "2021-11-27T07:50:43Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > It can’t be any crazier than the current situation, where gate campers sit right under the nose of Concord and are effectively _protected_ by them. Let me repeat again: the vast majority of gankers don’t sit at gates, they sit a a safespot or next to a citadel until they know a target is inbound, _then_ they warp to that gate. Mostly because they’re -10 and would be shot by people if they just lazily sit there. The small time solo gankers who do sit on gates are active and paying attention, all they would have to do is warp off every few mins and then back again. Annoying but not countering their profession. The _only_ people who would get killed from this are people who are lazy, semi afk and who don’t take this whole “EVE is a PvP game where you can’t even blink” seriously. Now when you devide players in groups, which one fits the above description the most you think. Pve/carebear players or pvpers? These people would be affected: - People sitting on the perimeter gate in Jita: carebears. - People sitting on random gates afk because their dog needs a hike or a family member calls them and they couldn’t be bothered to warp to a safe or station: carebears - People in a mining fleet where the FC fleetwarps his alts to the gate to jump, but there’s also another player in that fleet but he’s (shocker) afk, and now he’s on that gate: carebears The only people caught by this are the lazies which, on average, will _not_ be the pvpers or gankers. It’s a stupid idea. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 8:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/332 "2021-11-27T08:33:59Z")
What an excellent post. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/333 "2021-11-27T13:43:19Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > So what kind of ship do i need to bring on grid to take on the multiboxer. A blinged out cruiser? At 30mill? At 50mill? 100mill? And if I’m risking that amount of isk a 3million bounty just doesn’t cut it (theres no guarentee id have bounties for everyone of these alts). And when you factor in that you need to track this player down and get things set up for an engagement it gets worse. It could take hours to find them…and the risk on top. Nobody will interact with this for 3mill and standings apart from the players already creating anti ganking content. I mean a player will make more mining and thats just wrong for the level of risk. But this is the _entire_ problem with ganking. Gankers have minimal risk and consequence, whilst anyone taking them on has large risk and consequence. Do the maths, and anti-gank is a losing game. The entire dynamics of ganking is based around it not only being profit-worthy for the ganker, but unprofitable for any persons taking proactive action against them. It is a no win scenario. And it is **this** …rather than the fact that anything ranging from someone’s puny Condor to someone’s entire 15 years worth of Eve junk in a Providence can be blapped…that is what causes quitting. It is that Orwellian boot, stamping on one’s face…forever. Far from being an exciting cat and mouse dynamic…it is actually depressing because it seems after 18 years the wildebeast are still standing there apathetically watching fellow herd members get munched. _Nobody joins a game to be a wildebeast_…and yet that is precisely the direction in which most are funnelled from the start. So much for all those glossy adverts showing you conquering the universe. No…you’re an inconsequential pork chop in the process of destroying ISK. They could just make a huge bonfire of ISK every day and burn them…that would at least be honest…but no, there is a pretend ‘PvP’ dynamic in which Dick Turpin shows up and burns the ISK for you. This is about as exciting as watching paint dry…because in what is laughably called ‘high security’ you are not allowed to proactively fight back as the police actively protect the known criminals. So no…you can’t take on the role of Dirty Harry without incurring more loss than the gankers. The dynamic is to simply run away…hide…or just sit there like wildebeast watching a member of the herd be munched. I suspect hundreds who wanted to be Dirty Harry…heck, yes, some _real PvP_…have simply left the game. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/334 "2021-11-27T14:14:16Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > And it is **this** …rather than the fact that anything ranging from someone’s puny Condor to someone’s entire 15 years worth of Eve junk in a Providence can be blapped…that is what causes quitting Eve is a game where there are consequences. I like that if I make mistake I don’t just respawn and go again. I like that if I take an expensive ship out for an op I am putting that ship on the line. This is why I play eve. This is why vets play eve. The thing you think is bad is why loads of people play. I’m starting to lose patience here. Your situation is simple. If you dislike the game as much as you say then don’t play it. Trying to push changes that destroy the essence of what people love about the game by turning it into animal crossing or whatever other consequence free love fest you think new Eden should be. You need to adapt to how the game is. The game won’t adapt for you. End of ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/335 "2021-11-27T14:36:15Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > The gankers are the lions. But only because people like you choose to be the wildebeasts. You could choose to be a lion too, but you won’t. You’ll cower in your belt, waiting for a death you could have avoided and then crying to daddy CCP after for your revenge by nerfing a playstyle that’s valid simply because you’re bad at the game. This entire description of the dynamic is just pure, unadulterated, nonsense. I’ve no doubt that gankers love the ’ if you get ganked it was all your own fault’ attempt at logic. It avoids being labelled what one actually is…a thief…and creates a backwards rationale in which the thieved is somehow ‘to blame’. ‘Could have avoided’ is of course the mainstay of this bogus logic. But it’s nonsense, because no ship is ungankable. Yet you argue as if it was…the entire bogus ‘blame’ game is based on that. Oh I’ve no doubt some people could _better_ protect themselves…but nobody can 100% ‘avoid’ being ganked, and if they did…CCP would simply change the parameters so they could be ! Yet you create a _totally bogus_ straw man ‘blame’ mechanic that falsely justifies all the ’ If you got ganked it was your fault ’ that in turn portrays the gankers somehow as heroic lions rescuing the Serengeti from stupid genes entering the pool. It’s all just pure nonsense. The ‘blame’ mechanic is bogus…as _anyone_ can be ganked. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/336 "2021-11-27T14:41:55Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > You need to adapt to how the game is. The game won’t adapt for you. End of In one breath people say you are free to play the game how you like…and in another they assert a rigid ’ how it is '. If you re-read my posts here…you’ll see what I’m actually doing is pointing out these absurd contradictions. Maybe I just haven’t gotten used to the doublethink yet. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/337 "2021-11-27T14:52:50Z")
You can play how you like. You have a choice to mine in quiet systems to be safe. Or mine in busy systems where there is risk. Being able to play how you want to is not saying “I want to mine in busy systems but I’d like the game to make me invincible while I do it” Following you logic I should be able to ride a donkey over asteroids while I mine them lol ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/338 "2021-11-27T15:02:25Z")
From the single concept of HS market hubs’ geographic location in relation with the ganking traffic bottlenecks, one could conclude that someone up there loves them. In a closed environment, everything that happens is because it can. In gaming, is because it’s either allowed or encouraged. It is hardwired in EVE. Criticizing it is a waste of time. Anyone can be ganked and there is no doubt that when a pilot gets close, he falls under their indubitable dominance. It’s like a dress code: you abide to the code, prepare your attire, do and stop doing whatever fits and still can fail on the red carpet. It is a necessary evil, that just deserves some looking into. Do I want more of it? It doesn’t matter what I want, for in this case, being a driver for production/destruction results in being the game what needs it. That, and the fact that I think it’s current mechanics are wrong for making it a potential deterrent of young toons is the reason why I think it’s right to allow the deviation from the topic. --In case someone up there is watching– ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/339 "2021-11-27T15:08:05Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > You can play how you like. You have a choice to mine in quiet systems to be safe. Or mine in busy systems where there is risk. > > Being able to play how you want to is not saying “I want to mine in busy systems but I’d like the game to make me invincible while I do it” Yes but I’m simply pointing out that if person A’s ’ how I like it’ over-rides person B’s ’ how I like it’ then the entire ‘how I like it’ metric is bogus in the first place. People don’t ‘choose’ to be wildebeast…they are slotted in there by a _hierarchy_ of ‘how I like it’ that makes a more general ‘play how you like’ rather suspect…yet still the ’ you can play the game how you like’ meme perpetuates. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/340 "2021-11-27T15:17:37Z")
All semantics and simply looking for reasons to complain in the cracks. If you enjoy the game. Play the game. If you don’t enjoy the game. Don’t play it. But not enjoying the game continuing to play and spending what must now amount to hours typing on a forum………… We get it. You don’t like it. And I’m very sorry CCP are not changing the game into your own little utopia. Not much anyone can do about it. You have been given lots of advice on how to be successful and get more enjoyment out of the game within the existing mechanics. Those mechanics for better or worse are what we have. Not taking that advice and continuing to complain ………… You are the person at work that complains about having a headache but refuses to take a pill for it and just keeps complaining. Lol [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984.md?page=15) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984.md?page=17)