# I regret to inform that we still don't die enough **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pvp\ **Created:** [November 15, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984 "2021-11-15T16:34:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/361 "2021-11-27T16:34:21Z")
I mean the mechanics are already there in the form of faction warfear --fear– It could be … problematic but again, creativity conquers it all. Then, one would come with biggerer, betterer ships and fits under the pretext of greater gains as one plays part on any of the sides without permanent downsides. A highsex war! ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/362 "2021-11-27T16:38:13Z")
You made me wanna be a ganker! but what about the objective? it cannot fall under a simple confrontation of… wait! No fittings but readily available fitted hulls… quasi-equal. In order to avoid you know who doing you know what. And on call… a freightor could use the notbatphon but another type of phon with a PA address call. Epicus! In my little head at least… but the freightor must die! ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/363 "2021-11-27T16:40:05Z")
Oh! and anti-missol-lazors… just cuz ya kno… having anti-missol-missols is just plain stoopid once one has lazors! ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/364 "2021-11-27T16:41:15Z")
> [@Xucca](#): > > creativity conquers it all This is the issue. Faction warfare can work, but is currently broken and exploitable. Resource wars could have worked great, but was implemented so broken that nobody even took it seriously. Bounty hunting as a career can work fine, but CCP simply doesn’t bother to work out the details for any of this stuff. Some players like things just the way they are now. Those people send them millions of dollars of subs. That’s all CCP really cares about. CCP did okay with the Trig invasion and subsequent Abyssals (although with some glaring misteps), but as far as messing with old code they just don’t bother. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/365 "2021-11-27T20:34:46Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > But this is the _entire_ problem with ganking. Gankers have minimal risk and consequence, whilst anyone taking them on has large risk and consequence. Do the maths, and anti-gank is a losing game. I already outlined an exact fleet fit that costs as much as the catas and can easily deal with them. In fact, I’d go so far to say that fleet flown correctly will absolutely never lose to the catas as it is designed to kill them and you know what the catas are fitted with thanks to zkills. Catas are brawl, that fleet is kite. They literally will never touch you. I notice you are still ducking that post. I know why 😃 > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > The entire dynamics of ganking is based around it not only being profit-worthy for the ganker, but unprofitable for any persons taking proactive action against them. It is a no win scenario. Nope, its only no-win because you depend on daddy CCP to get your win for you. Find friends. Fleet up in that frig fleet I posted, profit. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > wildebeast are still standing there apathetically watching fellow herd members get munched. They are, including you. You have all the in game tools to fight back, but you won’t. You could join up with Githany and organize small gang roaming AG, but you won’t. You could join up with Githany and form the New Eden Logistics Force, which mines to fuel AG and build them ships, but you won’t. There are so many in game things you could do to combat this scourge you claim to hate and generate content for yourself. But you won’t. You’ll sit there in a belt, lasering a rock and waiting for death. And that’s your right too. However, don’t think for one second you aren’t the wildebeest watching their friends get eaten. Because you are 😃 > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > _Nobody joins a game to be a wildebeast_…and yet that is precisely the direction in which most are funnelled from the start. No. They choose to be. And that is the chip truth. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > The dynamic is to simply run away…hide…or just sit there like wildebeast watching a member of the herd be munched. Or, take control of your own destiny. Learn how to fit, learn how to fly and learn how to fight. You won’t. Because that takes actual game play. It takes risk. It takes losing. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > some _real PvP_ What is real PvP? It is obvious you don’t know how. I suspect you didn’t commit on the frig fleet because you have no idea what some of those modules do. It is very easy to keep yourself in T1 frigs. And that’s all it takes to stop a dessie fleet. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > It’s all just pure nonsense. The ‘blame’ mechanic is bogus…as _anyone_ can be ganked. Yep! And there are a ton of strategies to avoid it as well. You’ve already admitted to using them and that they work 😃 Therefore, you have self owned your own argument 😃 Learn to EVE kthx. > [@Xucca](#): > > From the single concept of HS market hubs’ geographic location in relation with the ganking traffic bottlenecks, one could conclude that someone up there loves them. Only for people who can’t read F10 to save their lives. There are tons of quiet routes to mine in that lead directly to Jita without going thru Uedama. Learn to EVE kthx. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > What I am objecting to is the wildebeast having to just apathetically stand around and be munched…without any dynamic for the sort of Dirty Harry style 'make my day, ganker ! ’ comeback that would constitute REAL PVP…actual combat…rather than 7 seconds of 15 Catalyst vs 1 Venture and a Concord intervention whilst the wildebeast carry on munching. There is “real” PvP to stop them. You simply won’t. And you are promoting the wildebeest mentality with these posts 😃 You are simply making more. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > There’s no sense in which any Dirty Harry is gonna show up and proclaim ’ make my day, ganker !’. ALL of the consequence is on the thieved, and none on the ganker. Some are simply suggesting this needs re-balancing. See my frig fleet post 😃 > [@Xucca](#): > > This “enjoy it or leave” is way too subjective for setting the thermostat on a discussion. > People use it as a catch phase in many forms and here is my take: Why? Its true. If a vidya game isn’t fun, don’t play ROFL. > [@Xucca](#): > > Could it be in part… because you can? --afford it?– > You risk a percentage glorified as a big deal or are you truly backpacking your EVE’s life through Ahbazon? > > Don’t answer, just think about others. > > The concept of joy is subjective. Too much to point at the door. LOL why would you go thru Ahbazon knowing its a death trap? Risk is inherent every time you undock. But if you rolling thru Ahb, you’d better roll heavy or fast ROFL. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > But having faced that cat and mouse…it would be good if one could change ship, undock, and make the ganker the hunted. That’s all I’m asking for…a dynamic that allows the table to be turned in a cost effective manner. That would spice things up even more ! You literally can. > [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Nothing in game is stopping you doing that though. This is the issue I have > > What is stopping you turning the tables? You can dock up reship. You could cash in on your kill right. You could join the anti-gankers. > > You can even get in a cheap ship and use the same mechanics against them. > > Everything you are asking for can be done in game. It’s just more effort and less convenient than you want it to be. Yet you continually present it as being impossible All snark aside, if you truly are one year in and have this perspective, well it honestly makes me happy. You have learned to EVE and have proven people can do so. This is the mindset everyone should strive for. EVE isn’t a game for everyone. Some people need Stardew Valley and thats ok. But Cyilla trying to turn EVE into Stardew Valley is def wrong. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Sure…and I’ll relish the role of Dirty Harry. Now if the Concord authorities would just stop taking my gun away for zapping the baddies…🙂 Until they take aggressive action, they are just another capusleer in CONCORD’s eyes 😃 > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > It would be far better if players were empowered to provide that response service. LOL. No one would. You think peeps would actually risk ships without CONCORD protection? > [@Xucca](#): > > I said force… never undersigned it. > > Could be, yes. I like it but since it was Gix who twisted me to it, I hesitantly raise a brow. The smirk is free. What am I being accused of now? ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/366 "2021-11-27T21:27:49Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > > [@Xucca](#): > > > > This “enjoy it or leave” is way too subjective for setting the thermostat on a discussion. > > > > > People use it as a catch phase in many forms and here is my take: > > Why? Its true. If a vidya game isn’t fun, don’t play ROFL. Maybe I should have quoted the whole.. the point is, people that use the forum don’t have to do it because they are happy-go-guppies. And I never said it’s false. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > LOL why would you go thru Ahbazon knowing its a death trap? Risk is inherent every time you undock. But if you rolling thru Ahb, you’d better roll heavy or fast ROFL. meh.. I smell trolling on tis one. Read the full thing. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > What am I being accused of now? back on the thread, I think you were the first to mention something alike. Or said you like it.. and it was about something else I said.. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 9:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/367 "2021-11-27T21:35:29Z")
> [@Xucca](#): > > back on the thread, I think you were the first to mention something alike. Or said you like it… and it was about something else I said… Nope. It was not Gix. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/368 "2021-11-27T21:38:24Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > You can play how you like. You have a choice to mine in quiet systems to be safe. Or mine in busy systems where there is risk. > > Being able to play how you want to is not saying “I want to mine in busy systems but I’d like the game to make me invincible while I do it” It’s posts like these that I wish there was an unlike or thumbs-down button. A mining ship isn’t “invincible”. It’s a trade off between strength and capacity. The current Retriever has good capacity but lower strength, while the current Procurer has more strength but less capacity. Pick wish is better for your. I’ve mined in both under different situations. Nerfing the Procurer doesn’t add to “You can play how you like” when you have less chance against a ganker who doesn’t care about losing their ship. 👎 ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/369 "2021-11-27T21:43:33Z")
Conveniently missing the part that If you fly more than 8 jumps away from a trade hub you can mine for years and never see a ganker and have to worry about tank. But if you just want to set up shop where the safety are having lunch you have to accept the crap that comes with that 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 10:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/370 "2021-11-27T22:01:48Z")
> [@Xucca](#): > > meh… I smell trolling on tis one. Read the full thing. What troll the truth? Why would you willingly enter into the lion’s den unless you came equipped? If you came ill-equipped, why are you surprised when eaten? ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/371 "2021-11-27T22:43:15Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > What troll the truth? Why would you willingly enter into the lion’s den unless you came equipped? If you came ill-equipped, why are you surprised when eaten? > [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > I like the risk of losing cargo. I like the risk of an op in an expensive ship. There.. because this is why I wrote what you quoted. I think you did not read it. But it’s ok, I got the idea, thx ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/372 "2021-11-27T22:51:58Z")
Is this directed at me? Or are you just quoting me? Because I’m not sure what you are trying to say here. Sorry if I’m being dense ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 11:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/373 "2021-11-27T23:08:08Z")
> [@Xucca](#): > > There… because this is why I wrote what you quoted. I think you did not read it. But it’s ok, I got the idea, thx Welp its the truth. If you don’t believe me, then I heard if you bring your blinged out gila to Tama, ISK rains from the sky 😃 Just wait at the sun and offline your tank mods. That’s the secret. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 11:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/374 "2021-11-27T23:09:43Z")
Also it works in Old Man Star too. But for that system you have to announce in local that you’re a bear looking for honey and that you know its at the sun so thats where you’ll wait. Then you must WTZ at the sun, and ship spin exactly 563 times. Once you do so, ISK literally warps in from all angles. True story. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/375 "2021-11-27T23:19:03Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Conveniently missing the part that If you fly more than 8 jumps away from a trade hub you can mine for years and never see a ganker and have to worry about tank. I’ve mined in a lot of .5 and .6 systems well away from major hubs and CODE, Safety, et al still came in frequently. And happily destroyed many of them foolish enough to attack me. Having a strong miner gave me that freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/376 "2021-11-27T23:31:51Z")
Then what’s the issue? I point out people have a choice about how they mine. And don’t need to mine in busy systems. And your response is I mine in busy systems but they can’t kill me. So now we can mine in quiet systems with no tank and have zero problems…… AND mine in busy systems and be invincible. So why is ganking a problem lol ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/377 "2021-11-27T23:35:00Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > So why is ganking a problem “Ganking” becomes wholesale slaughter when the prey is nerfed and nothing changes for the predators. 😡 And you really think gankers aren’t going to seek out these “safer” systems eventually? 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2021, 11:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/378 "2021-11-27T23:39:47Z")
> [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > Ganking” becomes wholesale slaughter when the prey is nerfed and nothing changes for the predators. 😡 Have you seen the buffs to ehp the mining barges and exhumers look to be getting in the next update? > [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > And you really think gankers aren’t going to seek out these “safer” systems eventually As long as there are players stupid enough to mine in bad fits right next to them…… no I don’t. Why travel around looking for me when you can stay where you live and have multiple targets. Now if everyone gets good then maybe. But given when this is explained to people…… they just say “no I’ll keep doing what I’m doing and hope CCP changes things” I’m feeling pretty safe for the next 10 years at least 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 12:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/379 "2021-11-28T00:29:43Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > As long as there are players stupid enough to mine in bad fits right next to them…… no I don’t. Why travel around looking for me when you can stay where you live and have multiple targets. > > Now if everyone gets good then maybe. > > But given when this is explained to people…… they just say “no I’ll keep doing what I’m doing and hope CCP changes things” I’m feeling pretty safe for the next 10 years at least You’ll be safe for years to come. Just practice opsec as you are doing. Cilla just got her and her friend blapped. I know someone gonna tell Adrian LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 1:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/380 "2021-11-28T01:53:50Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > People don’t ‘choose’ to be wildebeast…they are slotted in there by a _hierarchy_ of ‘how I like it’ that makes a more general ‘play how you like’ rather suspect…yet still the ’ you can play the game how you like’ meme perpetuates. This is categorically false. You can play the game _exactly_ how you want to from day one, and _no one_ is forcing you to be a high-sec miner. _You_ made that choice for yourself. When I started playing, I got into PvP pretty much from the first week. I didn’t feel obligated to go through the “new player” motions wherein I grind high-sec ore for half a year before “becoming ready” to have my first “op.” Most people choose to be wildebeests on their own volition, usually through logic like “only griefers attack other players and I am a nice person, so I will be a miner/industrialist!” It’s _their_ choice, of course, but the end result is that they never learn how to play the game well, and pay for it with repeated losses and suffering. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > That’s all I’m asking for…a dynamic that allows the table to be turned in a cost effective manner. That would spice things up even more ! This will never be possible as long as the punishment for ganking consists of an NPC kill trigger that occurs within 5-26 seconds, depending on system security rating. Gankers using cheap, expendable ships to gank is a calculated, rational response to environmental circumstances. If you want to change this, the first stop would entail changing CONCORD to no longer be an _absolute_ punishment the way it is now. But good luck doing that. Go propose changing CONCORD in the ideas section of the forums, and see how quickly your throat gets torn out by the rabid miners who read it. By the way, things weren’t always like this. In the past, we had high-sec wars, and there was _much_ less ganking going on at that time. Many of the gankers today are players who used to engage in these wars. PvE-focused corporations used to hire PvP-focused corporations as mercenaries for protection against incoming wars, or to go after their economic competitors. As time went on, more and more players started complaining about the war mechanic because all they wanted to do was mine and run missions in peace, and not have to deal with wars or having to spend some of their money on protection. So about five years ago, CCP effectively removed wars from the game. And now ganking is the only true form of non-consensual PvP left in the game, so 100% of the whining and complaining is directed at it instead. Carebear players will _never_ support a system in which _any_ form on non-consensual PvP is possible. > [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > “Ganking” becomes wholesale slaughter when the prey is nerfed and nothing changes for the predators. 😡 Most of the changes throughout the years have in fact nerfed the gankers. I can provide a list if you’d like. It’s in my post history somewhere. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984.md?page=17) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984.md?page=19)