# I regret to inform that we still don't die enough **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pvp\ **Created:** [November 15, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984 "2021-11-15T16:34:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 8:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/21 "2021-11-15T20:56:55Z")
> [@Xucca](#): > > -“… _Scarcity_ firmly _ends_ in Q4 2021 with additional resources as well as player choice for what resources to distribute in your sovereign space…” > [@Xucca](#): > > Is it just me, or the script doesn’t fit the scene? Anyone watching CCP for the long term knows there’s a big difference between what they say and what they do. They literally have no problem with complete **doublespeak** because their base assumption is that players aren’t that smart, and exist to be fleeced for more subs. “We are doubling resources” and “we are throwing away half those resource as waste for most miners” in the same breath, becomes “scarcity firmly ends”. Throw in “oh yes and we’re nerfing Rorqs and Orcs too” and you’ve actually got _more_ scarcity. > [@Xucca](#): > > Or could it be… that there was no such “need for destruction” anyway? Well, there is and there isn’t. Plenty of games get along fine without needing players to destroy other players stuff. And there are other ways to cause destruction (see Trig invasion). However, the real question here is “What sort and amount of destruction would make EVE more entertaining, more appealing, and more successful?”. It’s not a question of more/less, it’s a question of proper implementation. Destiny will tell you that > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > There absolutely is a need for destruction. because they’re a one-note player with a certain agenda that says “I need to be able to prove my worth by having a free hand to hunt and kill weaker players without much consequence to me.” It’s what bullies on playgrounds do, and it’s the same justification “It’s not my fault they’re weaker than me, they need to acknowledge who’s the boss around here”. Pulling out the “players need to sacrifice their personal pleasure in a game for the good of the game” card is just another way of saying “I need people to volunteer to be my victims so **I** can enjoy **my** game, wth are they doing trying to have fun their own way anyway?” It’s an extremely self-centric viewpoint, disguised as “but it’s good for the whole community!”. A decent game needs to be structured so that production and conflict happen naturally, for sensible reasons, and that the majority of players are getting what they want out of the game the majority of the time. Now, as it stands, EVE already _has_ that to some extent. The majority of producers/farmers are growing their wealth the majority of the time, and the PvPers can find some sort of conflict or target the majority of the time… for the current playerbase. The problem is that the player base has been steadily shrinking over the past decade, because these balances aren’t really well balanced, and the types of production and conflict available aren’t really that fun. So you end up with a niche of a niche audience, steadily shrinking, with the producers blaming the PvP and the PvPers blaming the farmers for the downturn. If destruction had more facets than “ambush smash and grab”, and if production had more opportunities than “boring repetitive grind”, we’d see a lot more interest in EVE Online. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/22 "2021-11-15T20:59:34Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > force all PvP’ers As soon as you undock, you become a PvPer 😃 A mantra I tried to drill into people when I played SWG was that the frontline is everywhere. That is 100x as true in New Eden. Now you claim Destiny and I are merely trolls. I say we are prophets. It is player perspective that warps and wefts the game. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Except for a small minority of players who need the smash-and-grab style of play as an outlet for their urges, the majority of EVE’s player base isn’t here to play a survival game. Players who want a survival game will go play one of the actually well-designed ones. Again your bias is showing. All playstyles are valid. From the little miner who wants to sit there and blap rocks, and the ganker in the cata coming to blap him. As Ramona said, get better at not being found. In all my years of EVE, I have never once been ganked in high sec. Could it happen? Definitely. If it does happen? They caught me slipping and I deserved death. Learn to EVE kthx 😃 > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > You can see the element of “PvP makes me better than you” all through the forums from Gix, Aiko, Destiny, Solstice and many of the other PvP cheerleaders. It seems the whole reason they’re emotionally invested in EVE is specifically _because_ it gives them a hook to hang their “I’m better than you” needs on. Except I don’t think I’m better than anyone 😃 I merely want others to embrace the reality that is EVE. And one of those core tenets? Sometimes its your turn to get blapped 😃 Don’t wanna get blapped? Get gud 😃 > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > But one thing that’s wired harder into people, biologically, evolutionarily, right down into your genes and emotional hindbrain, is to avoid risk and increase your ‘value’. Whether it’s your physical resources, or respect among your peer group, or your feeling of self-worth, people are inherently wired to increase their value across a broad spectrum of metrics and not to _decrease_ it. Thats a large armchair psych assumption 😃 > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > That’s why production outweighs destruction in EVE. That’s why people do the math and choose not to PvP. It’s because, unless you feel a need to prove your self-worth by ganking/ambushing/ trapping another person, EVE PvP isn’t a ‘growth’ activity. (Barring some gank-for-profit situations) Ship loss is the reason for ship production 😃 > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Nah not in my case, I just really hate doing something I always lose at. > > If I undock a ship its already written off Once again, you droppeth the truth on these shallow forums. ---
**Author:** ![Jah\_Ruels](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jah_ruels/32/293719_2.png) [@Jah\_Ruels](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jah_Ruels)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/23 "2021-11-15T23:12:46Z")
What’s with the “we” all of a sudden? I’ll die over and over again soon enough, no need for me to seek it out. If you want to die more then do it but don’t make it an activity for me. I’m here to fly ships and shoot up stuff, dying is collateral damage, not the aim. ---
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 12:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/24 "2021-11-16T00:06:02Z")
I get the bit about risk-taking. I always got the flight/fight shakes when escaping a gank or some other situation where the activity I was undertaking could result in ship destruction or podding. Never once did I get the shakes from knowing my ship was lost like when I was doing a gank or going on a welp roam. ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 1:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/25 "2021-11-16T01:04:29Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The types of people that make up the majority of today’s gaming demographic are incompatible with it. Oh I have such things to show you in regards to that sort of thing. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/4/8/7/487960593a4e7c5f6f9316a6e71a51cb7c7aeefc.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 1:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/26 "2021-11-16T13:17:55Z")
Practice your mining. –Helpful Gadget ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/27 "2021-11-16T13:47:51Z")
I don’t need to. I’ve been breaking my ass off in the salt mines for over twenty years now. I have more experience than every carebear in here combined. ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/28 "2021-11-16T13:58:18Z")
I too have visited Salzburg. It was interesting. –Travelling Gadget ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 2:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/29 "2021-11-16T14:12:09Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I’ve been breaking my ass off in the salt mines for over twenty years now. I have more experience than every carebear in here combined. I can confirm this, literally every time I encounter Destiny in-game, she is Highsec mining. I’ve tried to get her to do something else, and she always has some flustered response about how she just needs to grind another mission or level or rock patch in order to upgrade her whatever to get the next tier and achieve the completion fetch quest. She’s always just rushing back and forth, it’s tiresome to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/30 "2021-11-16T14:13:14Z")
I’d be ready to die more often in Eve if there was less emphasis on ‘kills’ and more on ‘glorious death’. If I were to take on 4 ships in PvP and get destroyed…those involved in killing me would show off their kills, while all I get is an ignominious fate as the killed. There’s nothing that marks the equivalent of heroism, cunning, stupidity, tactics or the lack of them. It’s all just ‘kills’…no ‘putting up a brave fight’ or anything like that, even though it really wouldn’t be that hard for the system to use a bit of AI and work out what happened. So I’d have more than just kill scores…that would encourage people to go out and die. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/31 "2021-11-16T14:26:46Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > In all my years of EVE, I have never once been ganked in high sec. Could it happen? Definitely. If it does happen? They caught me slipping and I deserved death. The trouble is that slipping is incredibly easy. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve gone through a gate and not switched the shield extenders back on again. Or I’ve gone 10 minutes without doing a D Scan. Yesterday I got stuck near a huge asteroid…even though I was 8km away from it…simply could not warp for over a minute and could easily have been ganked in that time. Being 100% gank-proof is simply not possible, both from the ship perspective and the human one. I’ll get ganked one day in my Proc ( though I do less mining now and more PvE )…but I certainly won’t feel that I ‘deserved’ it. It’ll just be sod’s law. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/32 "2021-11-16T14:27:28Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve gone through a gate and not switched the shield extenders back on again. Or I’ve gone 10 minutes without doing a D Scan. Uh, that is the game… ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/33 "2021-11-16T14:30:24Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Uh, that is the game… Of course it is…but Gix seems to think anything less than eagle-eyed attention 100% of the time and people ‘deserve’ to die. But as you say the game factors in tiredness, mistakes, or even me docking at the wrong station as I did yesterday when safety were in Botane. MIstakes are easy, and you die from them…and that is Eve. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/34 "2021-11-16T14:31:24Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Gix seems to think anything less than eagle-eyed attention 100% of the time and people ‘deserve’ to die. They do. You are playing a game in which you are voluntarily agreeing to let other players hunt you. If you don’t like it, stop undocking. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/35 "2021-11-16T14:35:43Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > If you don’t like it, stop undocking. Oh, I did undock, once Safety had gone away…after they’d claimed in local that the region was theirs. Actually I invited them into the station for tea and scones, as their 15 minute ‘conquest’ of Botane must have been really strenuous 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/36 "2021-11-16T14:37:01Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > it’s tiresome to watch Stop watching me you sociopath! 😡 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/37 "2021-11-16T20:23:29Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > The trouble is that slipping is incredibly easy. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve gone through a gate and not switched the shield extenders back on again. Or I’ve gone 10 minutes without doing a D Scan. Yesterday I got stuck near a huge asteroid…even though I was 8km away from it…simply could not warp for over a minute and could easily have been ganked in that time. > > Being 100% gank-proof is simply not possible, both from the ship perspective and the human one. I’ll get ganked one day in my Proc ( though I do less mining now and more PvE )…but I certainly won’t feel that I ‘deserved’ it. It’ll just be sod’s law. Uh wut. These things you mention are muscle memory for me. I press v constantly no matter what sec I’m in. I’m not saying anyone is 100% gank proof but uh, its obvious you are demonstrating what being caught slipping is. And yes, if you get caught slipping, that death was deserved. 10 minutes without doing a D-scan? 10 minutes? And you wonder why people get ganked. Just learn to EVE kthx. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Of course it is…but Gix seems to think anything less than eagle-eyed attention 100% of the time and people ‘deserve’ to die. But as you say the game factors in tiredness, mistakes, or even me docking at the wrong station as I did yesterday when safety were in Botane. MIstakes are easy, and you die from them…and that is Eve. Yes, you get caught slipping and you die. Thanks for agreeing 😃 Also lulcakes. Botane has a huge gank fleet docked up there 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Phan\_tasm](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phan_tasm/32/296096_2.png) [@Phan\_tasm](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phan_tasm)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/38 "2021-11-16T21:02:17Z")
> [@Rekindle](#): > > I know when I wake up the first two things I do are - > 1 open my wallet to pay for a game > 2. Question what sacrifices I’m going to have to make to make the game good 😄 Exactly. I’m supposed to pay for Omega and _still_ sacrifice “for the game” as if I have vested interests in CCP’s earnings. It’s completely asinine. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/39 "2021-11-16T21:24:08Z")
You might be misunderstanding what “sacrifice” means in this context. Accepting a hit to the income generated by one of many in-game economic activities isn’t the same thing as skipping meals just to be able to feed your children. The game is a _community_, and it won’t be a healthy one if people approach it solely from a “■■■■ you, got mine” perspective. Case in point, most miners would be absolutely ecstatic if CCP multiplied all yields by a hundred, because, hooray! Finally a mining buff! Then a week later everyone is quitting because there’s no longer an economy and everything is meaningless. It’s not about CCP’s earnings, it’s about having a functional game that’s able to keep players’ interest. ---
**Author:** ![Phan\_tasm](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phan_tasm/32/296096_2.png) [@Phan\_tasm](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phan_tasm)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2021, 9:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/40 "2021-11-16T21:42:59Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > You might be misunderstanding what “sacrifice” means in this context No, I know exactly what “sacrifice” means, in any context. Just because you’re high-and-mighty doesn’t mean I’m illiterate. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The game is a _community_ Riiiiiight > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > it won’t be a healthy one if people approach it solely from a “■■■■ you, got mine” perspective I do have mine, it’s called Omega and Open-world. And indeed, f u is right. I play the way I want to and to hell with your totalitarianism masqueraded in good intentions. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984.md?page=3)