# I regret to inform that we still don't die enough **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pvp\ **Created:** [November 15, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984 "2021-11-15T16:34:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/442 "2021-11-28T20:43:27Z")
So you believe gankers are more than human, superior players who engage in PvP which is so complex that it should not be considered PvP? Gods, if you will, GvP - I like it! ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/443 "2021-11-28T20:55:57Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > So you believe gankers are more than human, superior players who engage in PvP which is so complex that it should not be considered PvP? No, not superior. With a traced favorable outcome that has better chances to unravel accordingly, maybe. Some people would love to manifest that into superiority, but nah… ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 8:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/444 "2021-11-28T20:56:37Z")
If I have better chances to trave a favorable outcome, doesn’t that manifest into superiority? ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/445 "2021-11-28T20:57:43Z")
Nope. Oh, In game… make up your mind! U said something human whatever… trollingesque thingy… In game? YEa of course a ganker holds the higher ground!! But superior human whatever you said?? no ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/446 "2021-11-28T21:23:27Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > If ganking is not player vs player, then miners must not be players. A sucker punch isn’t PVP. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/447 "2021-11-28T21:24:54Z")
> [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > A sucker punch isn’t PVP. I’m not sure what you mean by “sucker punch”, but if I’m not mistaken, punch means “to hit” - and I would think that hitting another player is the essence of PvP. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/448 "2021-11-28T21:26:57Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean by “sucker punch”, but if I’m not mistaken, punch means “to hit” - and I would think that hitting another player is the essence of PvP. A sucker punch is a hit out of the blue, often against someone less capable than you. I can show you video of thugs in NYC walking passed a stranger and just turn and decking them to the ground then strolling on. Wouldn’t call that a street fight. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 9:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/449 "2021-11-28T21:41:20Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > That is just nonsense. Nothing could be easier than ganking. Not even mining. > > I mean…ALL I have to do to gank is go to a 0.5 system and blast a Venture to bits. There’s no rule that says ganking _has_ to make a profit. I might simply want to have a good laugh. > > If I was as obsessed with ‘kills’ as some are…that is what I’d spend all day doing. It could not be easier. Mmm that’s misinfo. It is only “easy” if the target is bad at the game. And sadly, due to the lies you and your ilk push, most newbros buy into being wildebeests. Also, troll harder please 😃 > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Nah…the real argument is that thieves…sorry, gankers…know they are onto a good thing and don’t like the local ‘police’ to be nerfed in their task of helping them. Its the gankers who are the real carebears, wailing at anything that even remotely smacks of making their already cushy lifestyle even the tiniest bit harder. > > ‘Natural selection’ is just pure nonsense…as it is precisely what gankers dont want ! Natural selection is precisely the change that makes it harder for the lion to catch the wildebeast. But you **don’t** want the wildebeast to be able to run 1% faster or the lion poacher to be 1% more timely and accurate. Your trolling is losing quality ☹ > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > But ganking is the complete reverse. It is not fighting for king and country in some epic and glorious conflict like some of the adverts for Eve show. Ganking is just some CCP encouraged local Mafia protection racket that requires X amount of stuff to be destroyed and is quite happy to let Eve’s equivalent of bored script kiddies do it because they can’t do real combat. Or yennoe watch local and pretty much be safe. > [@Emira\_Sultana](#): > > real combat What is real combat? > [@Emira\_Sultana](#): > > There supposedly are powerful empires in EVE but I haven’t yet flown by a full empire fleet. What gives? Where’s the military? Where’s the intelligence agencies? Where’re the scouts? > And Faction Warfare is just between capsuleers so it doesn’t count as “empires fleets duking it out”. Buy a needlejack and go fly around null 😃 Lemme know what happens 😃 Bring your most expensive ship too, they’ll respect you more. > [@Xucca](#): > > I see gankers as vulture wannabe’s that justify their inability to engage an unpredictable outcome under the void pretension of removing the unfit. Most gankers I’ve encountered have a solid grasp of PvP mechanics and tactics. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > most psychotic of gankers Oof. That armchair psych is real huh? > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > a sense of guilt about what is effectively theft. Its a vidya game? > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > real PvP What is real PvP? > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Bringing in PLEX feels almost like cheating. Cept having a lot of ISK doesn’t make you a better player 😃 > [@Emira\_Sultana](#): > > I’m aware of those. What I’m talking about is where are Amarr/Caldari/Minmatar/Gallente military fleets? Why don’t we see or come across those empire fleets? Where are they? Why don’t they fight and why can’t we join those fights by fleeting up with them? > What’s the point of choosing an empire if we can fly any ship and never get to join those empires in space battles? Go to Tama my dude. Bring your most expensive ship. You’ll find some empire fleets 😃 Fly to the sun and tell them you want to face the best the Empires have to offer. Let me know how it goes 😃 > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > **valid reason** to participate in PvP. > > That’s why the topic turns to ganking so often, simply because it’s mostly only salt-miners, schoolyard bullies, and gank-farmers who have a valid reason to initiate PvP. (Nullsec wars aside, which is a completely different scenario.) > > Put other methods of reward and/or deriving satisfaction/making progress into the game, and you’ll see more actual PvP (combat ships vs. combat ships) than sheep-farming. Actually its cause low isn’t worth going into it. Make low worth it, and you’ll see PvP flourish again. Of course, the way I’d implement would drive most peeps from the game 😃 > [@Xucca](#): > > Ganking is not PVP It is, regardless of your opinion. I see this false narrative pushed here all the time in order to discredit ganking. Let me be clear again. Ganking is still a player vs player interaction. Ganking is PvP. Dueling at the sun is PvP Suspect baiting is PvP FW is PvP Null Wars are PvP, etc > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Currently, EVE PvP rewards salt-mining, gank-farming, and ego-boosting for a certain small segment of players. > > If that set of scenarios was expanded to bounty hunting, white knighting, protection contracts, account unlocks, standings-based rewards, etc. we’d see a lot more combat-PvP. > > (PvP meaning combat-fit ships fighting other combat-fit ships, and not weaksauce Catalysts going after Ventures and calling it ‘PvP’.) LOL not really. People can PvP for all sorts of reasons. Every ship is combat fit. Whether or not your fit is good, well that’s up to you. Also certain ships have certain roles. Catas killing ventures is PvP, regardless of your opinion. All the venture had to do was keep an eye on local, dscan and mine farther away from the drop in point. Simple opsec. But yea, playing EVE is hard 😃 > [@Xucca](#): > > Both are. But a more clear definition might be needed to level the same game complexity with one’s ability to argue. --or the right to-- Some people just can’t and feel the urge to put them all under the same in order to avoid specifics… Usually when trolling. It is clear. A player is vsing a player. Regardless of your opinion, you cannot dispute it. It is fact. > [@Xucca](#): > > The assumption lacks the complexity EVE deserves. > > It doesn’t matter if I can define PVP, I’d just change it to GVP, both players, one just happens to be Ganking for this particular scenario. No amount of semantics will change it. It is PvP. Period. Sorry bruv. > [@Xucca](#): > > YEa of course a ganker holds the higher ground!! Why? Because the peeps getting ganked are terribad at the game? I agree. > [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > A sucker punch isn’t PVP. Of course it is. Ambushes have been a part of warfare since we been amoebas mate. If only there was someone how a system wide list that is unfailing updated and tells you exactly whose in the system with you… > [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > A sucker punch is a hit out of the blue, often against someone less capable than you. > > I can show you video of thugs in NYC walking passed a stranger and just turn and decking them to the ground then strolling on. > > Wouldn’t call that a street fight. It is a street fight. It is literally a fight happening on the street. A gank is PvP. You are confusing opinion and fact 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 9:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/450 "2021-11-28T21:47:52Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Of course it is. Ambushes have been a part of warfare since we been amoebas mate. If only there was someone how a system wide list that is unfailing updated and tells you exactly whose in the system with you… If you ambush another fleet or at least a combat ship, perhaps. Ambush an explorer or miner isn’t much of a fight, let alone worth of such “brave” (and I use that term **very** lightly) fighter as are [supposedly] gankers. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > It is a street fight. It is literally a fight happening on the street. A 20-something slugging a 70 y/o lady is a street fight. Gotcha. 😡 ---
**Author:** ![Emira\_Sultana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emira_sultana/32/298445_2.png) [@Emira\_Sultana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emira_Sultana)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/451 "2021-11-28T21:50:25Z")
> [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > A 20-something slugging a 70 y/o lady is a street fight. Gotcha. Didn’t you notice that he quoted a bunch of people? He’s clearly fishing for an argument and someone to bully and you just bit on his hook 😅 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/452 "2021-11-28T21:55:23Z")
> [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > If you ambush another fleet or at least a combat ship, perhaps. > Ambush an explorer or miner isn’t much of a fight, let alone worth of such “brave” (and I use that term **very** lightly) fighter as are [supposedly] gankers. Once you undock, you consent to PvP. Regardless of whether you think its “brave” or not, it is still PvP. > [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > A 20-something slugging a 70 y/o lady is a street fight. Gotcha. 😡 I get why you’re appealing to emotion and using real world arguments to shore up your tenous argument in a vidya game. But yes, that is a street fight as well, regardless of your moral stance on it. Welcome to reality 😃 > [@Emira\_Sultana](#): > > Didn’t you notice that he quoted a bunch of people? He’s clearly fishing for an argument and someone to bully and you just bit on his hook 😅 I noticed you dodged every single one of my points. I’m not fishing for an argument, I am offering discourse and opinion. You wanted to see Empire wars. fit up your most expensive ship and needlejack. You’ll find it 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 10:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/453 "2021-11-28T22:04:44Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Once you undock, you consent to PvP BS! That’s like saying once I take my car out of the garage I consent to getting into an accident. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/454 "2021-11-28T22:06:25Z")
> [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > A sucker punch is a hit out of the blue, often against someone less capable than you. So, a sound military strategy? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/455 "2021-11-28T22:06:52Z")
Hang on , is this Cilla again? ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/456 "2021-11-28T22:08:32Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > So, a sound military strategy? Against another military target, sure. Against a civilian target, that’s a war crime. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/457 "2021-11-28T22:08:33Z")
Is an unfair fight still PvP? I think so, yes? Of course, since every EVE player starts the same way, with the same options - is there actually any unfair fight in EVE? It is a fair even match. Only skill and ability determines fate. Is this not the truth? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 10:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/458 "2021-11-28T22:09:54Z")
> [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > Against a civilian target, that’s a war crime. So, a solid way to do a war crime. Carpet bomb their cities with strategic bombers. End the war pretty quickly, break their morale. Pretty much the definition of effective strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 10:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/459 "2021-11-28T22:10:08Z")
Are war crimes PvP? I think so, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 10:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/460 "2021-11-28T22:33:43Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > So, a sound military strategy? Not really, as there is no military action associated. In game, it’s considered crime. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2021, 10:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/461 "2021-11-28T22:37:24Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Of course, since every EVE player starts the same way, with the same options In real EVE life? No! What if… one starts… twelve months before? If it’s a connfusion with WOW, then yeas. Oh wait! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984.md?page=21) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984.md?page=23)